Mitsubishi Plug-In SUV Delay

The hybrid mode is 44mpg for the Japanese test cycle. So maybe only 25mpg on US EPA test cycle.

 

Hill that is old news. They restarted production
Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV production restarts after five-month delay - Autoblog

but the date of shipments to the US is not clear. It may take awhile to produce for orders in the system.

Its difficult to say until it is tested. If you can make do with 2wd and the space of the c-max energi that is going to provide better fuel efficiency than this outlander phev. If you want awd and the space, the top selling cute utes are at 25 mpg combined. The outlanders electric miles are going to save gas over those.
Compare Side-by-Side

The rav4 ev is an option, but its only sold in california and has limited range. The outlander does seem to serve a niche no one else is fulfilling.

 

The end of our hybrid Lexus SUV?
Did PiP or Volt killed our hybrid Prius sales??

 

This SUV is seriously going to put some pressure on the Highlander Hybrid.
Toyota needs to step up its game. Why they (the 'hybrid leader') have such an avoidance of cars with plugs is beyond me.

Highlander Hybrid......no plug, people will opt for Mitsubishi
Prius V..........................no plug, people will opt for C-Max Energi
Lexus LS 600h L..........no plug, people will go for the new Mercedes s400 plug-in
Camry Hybrid..............no plug, people will go for Fusion Energi or Accord plug-in
Rav4 EV.......................ok, we have a plug!...........ooops, lease-only and sold in California only
Lexus CT200h.............no plug, so why bother? The Volt is cheaper, faster AND more efficient AND roomier

etc, etc., etc.

 

Volt is not cheaper than CT200h, nor more efficient (depends on trip profile), and I doubt more roomier (4 passenger only is very limitative, isn't it?).
And for people to "opt for", is not an implication, is as option. Price may force people to "opt for" hybrids...
Plug-in vehicles are for some profiles, remember.

 

You mean all this time, I have been paying for a lease on my Rav4ev instead of outright buy?

I guess that 60 months 0% financing payment is a fraud then. Or maybe you are just uninformed.

 

I believe Toyota simply wants nothing to do with plug ins, and is more focused on fuel cells.

Third party plug in kits came to market during the gen2 Prius' time, and people were asking Toyota to build one since then. Fine, Toyota wanted to take time in developing it, but they have also delayed the nationwide rollout of the PPI.

They out sourced the development of the only BEV they sell to Tesla. As pointed out, it is only sold in California. Toyota only sees it as a compliance car. Their in house BEV, the eQ, demonstrates they weren't taking the BEV market seriously. The 50 mile range would have it at the bottom of the pack of the models now available, and likely would've had a higher price tag.

The PPI mirrors the eQ low range, high price formula. Not saying the design doesn't perform, or that idea isn't bad. As a fair price option for the regular Prius, it might have been successful. That's not what we got. Toyota bundled it with a bunch of extras to increase the price. This just led to people seeing a $5000 price for just 11 miles of EV range.

Meanwhile, there have been more press postings here about their new FCV, than any plug in from them.

 

Way to go, ya got me.
But I am hardly misinformed on plug-in car issues.
The gist of me including the Rav4 Ev on the list is to point out that it is NOT available widely. In fact, being lease-only or available in only certain states makes it a compliance car.
So, Toyota has one car on this list with a plug, but lo and behold you have to live in California.
So, my point holds: Toyota's non-plug hybrids are losing ground because:

(1) They are no longer the most technically advanced in their class
(2) Toyota loses its halo as the 'hybrid/green/tech leader'
(3) Cars lose their 'cache' (if that's what you bough the car for)
(4) Toyota loses experience in real-world operation and maintenance of PHEVs

So, these points still hold. That was what my post was about........not about the finer points of financing a RAV4 EV.

 

Sigh.

see
Compare Side-by-Side

MSRP of Volt: $39,145 [NOT including recent $5k drop] - $7500 tax credit = $31,645
MSRP of CT200h: $32,050

Volt is much more efficient for 1st 40 miles..................................................................................win for Volt.

Volt ties CT200h @ 40mpg on the hiway, but uses premium gas..................................win or draw for Volt

Volt has lower city mpg in hybrid mode......35mpg vs 43mpg for CT200h. Easily remedied by using "Charge hold" function on the Volt. So, on ALL trips, Volt will match CT200h on highway, and then blow it away in the city by using the charge in the battery. Only way CT200h wins is if more than 100 miles exclusively in city, in between charging opportunities. Don't know many cars that have that type of daily drive, except taxis....................................................................................................................................win for Volt.

Compare Side-by-Side

Yes, Volt only seats 4, but you wouldn't want to put 5 people in the Lexus for any thing more than a short trip.

passenger
---------------
Volt: 90 cubic feet interior
CT 200h: 86 cubic feet interior

cargo
----------------
Volt: 18 cubic feet with hatchback
CT200h: 14 cubic feet with hatchback

 

Couldn't agree more!
Toyota, are you reading this!!!??

 

You can complain about Toyota not having BEV or plugin commitments all you want. In reality, they are the new GM. They want nothing to do with battery powered cars other than regular non-plugin hybrids. Toyota needs to support their dealerships service departments, so BEV is not an option. They already looking at the next compliance car already, their fuel cell car, that will require EVEN MORE service from your local Toyota dealership.

You can talk to Tony Williams. An EV advocate that has learned to hate Toyota for Toyota's stance of hating BEV.

 

Toyota is pursuing the wrong technology.
They need to pay attention.

Building expensive fuel cell cars with NO infrastructure to support them?
Fuel cells that have not track record of reliability, even as Prius after Prius passes 250k miles in taxi service?

What is going on here?

Every thing they've done shows how gun-shy they are on plug-ins:
- No plug-in versions of the cars in my list. HSD is superior to IMA, yet Honda beats Toyota to the punch
- Deficiency of the Scion eQ, as you mentioned
- Release of Rav4 EV in limited numbers, in only 1 state
- Reluctance to use lithium ion batteries in non-plug in hybrids

So, I think Toyota is starting to fall behind. Even Mitsubishi is running circles around them in the hybrid sphere.

I know this has been discussed before, but something tells me that fuel cells are just one big head-fake from Toyota. They are simply too smart for it to be otherwise. They are not going to simply cede the hybrid market to plug-ins, when it is they who single-handedly built the market in the first place.

I would not put it past Toyota to start offering plug-in NiMH batteries (comparable to the EV-95) in the near future.
These would likely be sized to right around 4kwh, just above the threshold to qualify for the federal tax credit.
Toyota has repeatedly hinted that their main concern with Lithium and higher-AER PHEV's is the pay-back period.

There is simply no way lithium batteries will ever be as cheap as NiMH, and the high power output of NiMH batteries means they can offset their weight disadvantage in city driving conditions.

For standard hybrids and low-AER PHEV's, Toyota is probably hedging its bets, battery-wise.

 

Oh. Furthermore on the Rav4EV.

The Rav4EV has the same EV motor as the Model S, but Toyota asked Tesla to reduce the power output on the Rav. This cannot make much sense. Why make the RavEV be less powerful? Don't Toyota marketing want to sell this thing? The answer is NO. Hence, the great lease deal happening now, while the buy option has ZERO incentives unlike two months ago. The RAV4EV will most likely be like the EV1.

All the while, they go about complaining to the CARB board that no one wants to buy BEV, so allow them to cancel the program. Repeat of early 2000s.

I hope the Outlander PHEV is successful. Just so it is not like Toyota.

 

Any word on whether the Outlander and other Chademos will ever have converter to make them compatible with SAE combo

 

Meanwhile, the Rav4 EV was recently selling at 40 units per month.

So, big bad Toyota is doing 1/100 of what Mitsubishi is doing. (Of course that's only in 1 state, compared to a much wider release for the Outlander)

 

I'm not so sure the motor's power was designed to throttle sales.

Let's keep in mind that this Rav4 EV is basically the 40kwh Tesla which was never made.
But, it's a heavy, boxy SUV, so its range was already at a disadvantage compared to the cancelled Tesla.

Lowering the motor power is one way to squeeze the most range out of the battery pack. This is supposed to be a RAV4, not a Cherokee SRT-8. (Btw, the Rav4 EV is the fastest (in sport mode) model of Rav4 available).

Speaking of range, the fact is this is the longest-range EV available for the 'average Joe', making it all the more disappointing it's CA-only.
Because it's prime comparison is to the relatively low-mpg gas Rav4, the gas savings are HUGE.

I am having a hard time understanding why these aren't flying off lots in CA, given the:
- HUGE gas savings
- Carpool lane access - white sticker
- Extra $2500 tax credit

Everyone keeps complaining that "Tesla needs to build an EV everyone can afford".
Well, until that time, the Rav4 EV is as good as it gets.

 

The lowering of the HP is by software only. Toyota could have leave full power on the "sport mode". So it should not be an issue with range in normal mode. Its not like replacing an I4 ICE with a V8 ICE, that will cause for range drop. The Rav4EV community has mostly agreed this move is make the RAV4ev less attractive to buy. So they can try to convince CARB board to cancel the EV requirement. Imagine being able to market the RAV4ev as hot rod beating EVO/STi.

So what is stopping you from getting one from Dianne (who is selling them out of state) if it is so great? I got it for my wife as an ICE luxo SUV alternative for her WANT... after having our 2nd baby. How can I turn down the mother of my 2nd baby asking for something more comfortable than the Prius?

The stupid thing people do not know about the Rav4EV is, it is Lexus quiet. Fully insulated with double thick front windshield. Very stable at high speed too. Anti-Prius characteristics.

When I drove the Rav to my work place, people with Tesla/Leaf/Volt/PIP said they have not even seen one around. They ask why I would buy a Rav when a Tesla could be about the same price. They just throw out the $50k price, that it is too expensive. Only when I explained to them the deep discounts, then they were surprised that they could have a Rav for the same price as a Leaf. That is what I have been saying, Toyota DO NOT WANT to market the car to SELL to the public. Have anyone even seen a CA Rav4EV TV commercial?

As for the as good as it gets as affordable EV cars, lets hope the 2nd Tesla car, the Merc B series EV wagon will have much better cooperate support.

 

Are you sure this community would be interested in a hot-rod EV? Seems like they are more interested in environment/efficiency.
But, I totally agree with you on the software option. I completely forgot about this. You are right, that there should have been no problem in allowing 'sport mode' to unleash the full beast in the Tesla motor.....which btw, would make it the fastest RAV4......ever

Definitely don't have at income at the present time to be able to afford a new car..... My gen2 was paid off a year ago. It's a 2007, just passed 90k. Planning to keep it for years

Think it would have been better manufactured as a Lexus? Or perhaps that would increase sales, which Toyota wants to avoid!

The free market will sort it all out.
As we can see from the Outlander PHEV, people will not give up on a good idea.


Btw.........do you ever miss/need the ability to do L3 charging? I think Toyota's decision not to put in Chademo was yet another example of their disdain for the plug that I forgot to mention.

I heard that all RAV4 EV's are already hard-wired for L3, you just need to have it moded with a Chademo port.