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Mom's 2007 Prius on road trip, can't go over 45mph

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by dfwJim, May 17, 2014.

  1. dfwJim

    dfwJim New Member

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    As I am posting this my mother is returning from a road trip in her 2007 Prius. She said the red triangle, the "amber circle with an exclamation point and in parentheses", "ESC with check engine light beside it" (perhaps I misheard and this is "VSC"?) and "maintenance required" are all lit up. She said once it told her there were transmission problems.

    The car will drop into neutral if she goes over about 45-50 mph.

    She checked the owner's manual and called a dealership, and I did some quick internet searching, and there doesn't seem to be an immediate danger to continue driving at reduced speed to get home. Please correct me if we're wrong.

    After a quick scan here, I found the following in one of the stickies. This sounds like a candidate cause. I wouldn't call this a hot day, but this is Texas and it ain't cool, either.
    I have an OBDII Bluetooth Dongle, so when I get to her car--when she gets home or when I pick her up, depending on how things go--I'll get the codes.

    If anyone has an alternate long-distance diagnosis I'd appreciate hearing it. If it is this inverter pump, is it something easy to do oneself, or is it time to go to the mechanic?
     
  2. dfwJim

    dfwJim New Member

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    Mom and I were just reminiscing last weekend about how tech has changed and how things were different before cell phones and the Internet. Now she can keep me up-to-date on where she is and how the car is behaving, and I have identified a common-and-therefore-likely cause for her symptoms, and when I reach her car I'll plug in a device that will have her car tell my phone exactly what's wrong. In the meantime I've located videos on the location of the inverter cooling pump and the replacement procedure. The first one is only 30s, so I sent it to her so she can watch it on her phone to know where the likely problem is.

    I am also reminded that I'm older and have more money, and I'd frankly rather spend $300 or so to have someone else fix it than do it myself. (Especially if it's Mom's money :)) (The video quoted $245 and it's from a non-dealer mechanic in 2012, so I'm WAGing $300-$350 today. Too bad Mom missed the free recall replacement period!)
     
  3. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    I suggest that your mother should check the tire pressure on all four tires. Perhaps one tire is low and is rotating at a faster rate compared to the others, which is causing a problem with the skid control ECU.

    If the inverter coolant pump has failed, typically the car will refuse to run when the inverter overheats, vs. being able to proceed at a slower speed. I have posted on how to replace the inverter coolant pump here:
    How to Replace the Inverter Coolant Pump | PriusChat

    It is possible that the transaxle has failed. Has a warning icon appeared in the upper left corner of the MFD?
     
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  4. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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    How many miles on the car?
     
  5. Former Member 68813

    Former Member 68813 Senior Member

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    Has anyone checked fluid levels? High tech car doesn't mean low tech things should be neglected.
     
  6. kenoarto

    kenoarto Senior Member

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    Road trip sounds like a long trip. A triangle warning is serious. Random shift from 50 to neutral is dangerous on the highway! Get off the freeway and take it to a good Prius repair shop or dealer. Don't wait till she gets home if it's more than an hour away. 1st question: how old is the 12v battery?
     
  7. dfwJim

    dfwJim New Member

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    thanks for the replies. Mom made it home at 45mph last night.

    • She said she had the tires' pressures checked based on speaking to the dealer.
    • Thanks for the pump replacement link
    • I didn't get the mileage; I'll try to remember to check today. It wouldn't surprise me if it's over 100k
    • The inverter fluid appears to be full to me, but the way the tank is shaped it's hard for me to tell if it's even with the outside "full" line. Maybe I need a stronger flashlight.
    • She had the 12v battery die in the past year and got a new one, so it's recent.
    • The fault code from the OBDII is P0a93 which is for the inverter cooling; I don't know why it kept going for her instead of stopping like for others. There was also a "pending" fault code P2238, and I haven't found exactly what that is yet, but the warning lights sound very similar to the one for P0a93 and what we're seeing.
    • I opened the inverter coolant reservoir with the car on and couldn't see any turbulence in the coolant as seen in that 36-second first video I linked earlier.
    • I was dumb in that I didn't take a photo of the warning lights for reference, but I will try to get that today.
    At this time I think the plan is for Mom to take it to a Toyota dealer in the morning, but she should know what to expect.

    Oh, one additional bit of information: This started happening a few miles after her last fill-up, so we initially were wondering about bad gas. Based on how it's behaving we dismissed that idea and wrote it off to coincidence, but it's worth mentioning.
     
  8. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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    Inverter Pump has failed.

    P0A93 is the Inverter overheating. Not good. That same coolant loop that services the Inverter also is the coolant for the transmission so the car was driven with no trans coolant also. Odd that it didn't shut down the car.

    Replace the Inverter pump and flush the Inverter coolant. I would replace the Invert coolant hoses also. I would also replace the trans fluid as its probably toast too.
     
  9. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    DTC P2238 points to a fault with the air/fuel ratio sensor.
     
  10. uart

    uart Senior Member

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    An overheated inverter can cause the DC-DC converter to shut down, which then runs the 12V system very low. I think we've seen cases here where this has lead to other spurious errors. So I'd try just replacing the coolant pump at this stage. Also charge (or test) the 12V battery and clear the codes.
     
  11. dfwJim

    dfwJim New Member

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    Mom called again with warning lights again. She recently (< 1 month) had the 12v battery replaced, and everything was fine. Actually everything is fine except the dash lights. She'll take it to the dealer in the morning, but I thought I would post this here and see if anyone says "oh yeah, that means this". In my quick Google search I don't see what this means.
     

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  12. JC91006

    JC91006 Senior Member

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    Unless you have the proper tools to diagnose the problem, you would need to get the codes read somewhere......the dealer will be more expensive but they surely can get to the bottom of things.
     
  13. exstudent

    exstudent Senior Member

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    Get MiniVCI w/ Techstream (Amazon @ $27 or eBay). This will give you the same dealer level diagnosis capability; no more paying $100+ per incidence. With this tool, you'll no longer ask what "this" code means, but now ask "How do I ..."

    All those Bluetooth OBDII readers are a waste of time and money for the Prius, as those miss so many codes.

    READ the following link in its entirety, and you will know what hardware is required, and how to set-up Techstream. There is even a link for 64 bit-OS set-cup. Again, READ the thread from the Tundra folks in its entirety, and you should not have any further questions.
    TundraTalk.net - Toyota Tundra Discussion Forum - View Single Post - Offical TechStream software thread( settings and such)

    If your mom is physically able to, she needs to check the tire pressure herself. A lot could have happened between the time the dealer supposedly checked the tire pressure, to present date. If she doesn't know how to do this, you need to teach her. Tire pressure fluctuates w/ temperature as you may know. Also, the dealers will only inflate the tires to the manufactured recommendation of 35/33. Many here believe this is too low, and many seem to go 40/38, or 42/40.

    Art's Automotive provides a nice picture of Toyota 35/33, w/ lots of wear on the outer edges of the tires. Prius 30k Service
     
    #13 exstudent, Jan 26, 2015
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2015
  14. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    Make the Prius READY. Check the inverter coolant reservoir for fluid turbulence. If you do not see this then the inverter coolant pump failed.
     
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  15. PriusGuy32

    PriusGuy32 Prius Driver Extraordinaire

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    I thought we determined that the inverter coolant pump failed back in May 2014?? Was it never replaced then when the op stated that the inverter coolant reservoir had no turbulence? In confused.
     
  16. exstudent

    exstudent Senior Member

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    It may be the mom never took the car in for the Limited Service Campaign (LSC), or her VIN was not covered by the LSC. The LSC was specific on the model years covered and the VIN range. Unfortunately, this LSC is over so someone will have to pay to replace the inverter pump.
     
  17. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    Whether or not the pump was replaced in 5/2014, the pump may have failed (again), or there may have been an installation error if the pump was replaced.
     
  18. Jeff Martin

    Jeff Martin Junior Member

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    This is an old thread, but fits my symptoms nearly exactly - we've solved it, so I thought I'd post for future users.

    While driving I had noticed the engine seemed to really run fast- it was trying to charge the traction battery (which was low because of a lot of sitting still with the AC running, but it was unusual that the car really seemed to struggle to accelerate from stoplights - noticeably strained compared to same condition without the pending failure (which hadn't fully occurred yet). A while later, the AC air speed suddenly dropped noticeably - strange, so I checked, but it was still set to "high" where we had left it. A couple miles later, we heard a long tone along with the "red triangle of death" followed by a couple other dash lights, then another tone a moment later with many more warning lights showing - check engine, VSC, ABS, tire pressure warning. Ironically, we had just filled up the gas tank also, 14 miles before this, but I want to point out, that is just a coincidence and is not part of the cause.

    We were able to keep driving the last 1.5 mile home, no problem, and I immediately checked with my Torque app. P0A93 and P2238.
    upload_2020-5-2_7-51-35.png

    And I checked my custom view of battery and temperature readings and noted the traction battery was hotter than normal and the inverter was very hot, > 180 F.
    upload_2020-5-2_8-27-41.png

    After it all cooled down, I checked again and most dash lights were dark and it only showed the P0A93 code. This matched what I figured - the other lights and code were a cascade-of-failure effect... bogus. The real problem was the P0A93.

    upload_2020-5-2_7-59-1.png

    With the car on and "ready," I checked the inverter coolant reservoir... looked like a tranquil lake; no movement at all - silent.
    upload_2020-5-2_8-20-10.png
    Definitely a failed inverter coolant pump, or electrical problem for the pump. We figured the pump was bad.

    We bought a new inverter coolant pump and replaced it; took about an hour because we were "learning," but could be done in 20 to 30 min using the technique we devised along the way - I note it below. After replacement, we cleared the code and checked the coolant reservoir - it was obviously turbulent. Sorry for bad pictures... they were captured from a video.
    upload_2020-5-2_8-18-45.png

    And when running on a warm day with the AC blasting, both stand-still and freeway speeds, the inverter heated up and cooled right back down as we expect it to, getting to a maximum of 136 F for just a moment and normally staying in the 110s.

    upload_2020-5-2_8-41-51.png

    REPLACEMENT TECHNIQUE:

    We found what worked best for us was removing the front two bolts attaching the inverter to the frame and also the two bolts on the right side of the inverter mounting bracket (right above the inverter cooling pump) to completely remove the bracket. That left us very clear access to the pump (vertically), and with two of us working on it, one of us was able to hold the inverter up and to the left to make just enough room for the two fluid hoses to squeeze by (carefully) - the inverter's back mounting bolts were still in place. This allows the pump and hoses to be brought up above and in front of the inverter (between the radiator and inverter) for further pinching (to save fluid), unclamping, pump removal and replacement, then reinstallation. Definitely need two people for this process I described, but the whole thing could take only about 30 minutes.
     

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  19. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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    Best way is pull the top of the front bumper down by removing about 6 crews then its easy to take out the headlight by removing three screws once headlight is out the inverter is right there easy to unbolt. I've done it a few times takes taking the light asy out. Takes about 5-10 minutes. Easy.

    Thats how the dealer does it thats how Luscious does it.

    With headlight out good time to change the bulb its going to fail sooner or later.