My 2001 Hybrid Battery needs to be replaced

i cant believe this

sorry for the bump

but if i am currect you can just replace the bad cells...

you dont need to replace the COMPLEET HV bat.

 

I have coworkers with vehicles dating from the early 1990's to as new as 2003 - but all have one thing in common, off warranty. If you think a battery pack is pricey, how about an automatic transmission?

If you have ever had any experience with automatic transmissions, you know that a cheapo rebuild usually isn't worth it, they crap out very soon. A pro rebuild or factory exchange will perform and last like new, but will cost a lot more

For various GM auto overdrives, my co-workers have been dinged anywhere from $2,400 to $4,800, which includes installation and taxes in. The one who got the el cheapo rebuild for $1,400 was back about 18 months later with a failed transmission than never did run right

New technology is fine, it will work well over its lifespan. But the eventual repair bill can be staggering. There are 10 year old cars out there with fried computers or cooked transmissions in otherwise good shape, that are parted out due to the repair cost exceeding the current value

Speaking of transmissions, I'm thinking of the C6 in my Ford work truck at the hobby farm. This was a very durable and well made transmission. One can pick up "pro" units meant for racing and HD use for under $1,000, usually $600-$800.

No lockup torque converter, no overdrive. There is nothing like roaring down the highway at 3,000 RPM because the transmission only has 3 speeds

Put into the context of major repairs to similar aged vehicles, the Prius battery pack to me isn't a big deal. I've had work vehicles crap out on me, off warranty, and the major repair to the company has always been +$3,000

 

Agreed, My dad had his 99 mazda protege's transmission crap out at around 125k miles. One garage charged $900 for the seliloid replacement, the other garage wanted 2500-3500 to replace the entire transmission.

 

Boy! Should I feel lucky having paid "only" $400 for a 19K miles junked but original replacement transmission for my failed Camry tranny (at 120K) and the $500 for tools and parts (gaskets, oil etc.) that I paid to fix it myself...

I can't believe they asked $900 for the solenoid on the Mazda. On the Camry this is an "on-vehicle" repair and can be done in a shop for 2 hours max if not faster, based on my own attempt to troubleshoot the solenoids on mine, and before figuring out I actually need the whole tranny as the solenoids turned out fine...

Garages just play on consumers' fears of the "complexity" of certain repairs and charge what I think are arbitrary sums. Too bad there is not much one can do short of doing it themselves and not so many can afford this...

 

Is there any way to recharge the modules if the car won't start? will the car start off of the 12 volt battery alone?

 

1) The 12V battery is not use to start the engine. It is used to power up the computers, and then once everything checks out OK, it closes the relays from the 200 Volt HV battery to the Inverter for operating the car. (i.e. Both batteries must be working to start the car.)
2) HV battery recharging is officially done at a Toyota dealer using special recharging equipment. This is very rare.
3) Some individuals have done homemade HV recharging for unique situations. When dealing with something that can kill, and the HV battery has the power to kill, only those that have absolutely know how to do it right should do it.

 

Yeah, I'll second the previous post. Don't be messing with the HV battery, period (unless you're an EE or tech). There's a reason that Toyota made the thick HV cables bright orange. Contrary to the beliefs of many people, it's not the voltage that will kill you, it's the current (measured in amps). In rough, non-scientific terms, consider what a current sufficient to move a 3,000 pound car around smartly might do when misdirected into your body instead of a motor-generator.

 

the voltage is the problem
a 24 volts batt. with 400amps wil not kill you and the current is high..
when you get around and above 48 volts things geht trikkie

 

Well, to be precise, it is the current as far as I can tell. But the current that would flow thru you depends on your resistance. A 24V source applied to the resistance your dry skin has can't supply enough

Hold the terminals of a 9V battery in one hand (off a radio or a clock backup or something) - you won't feel a thing. Now, lick it - your tongue will tell you if the battery is good And *don't do this with the car battery* !!! Your tongue stings because it is wet and has good conductivity (e.g. low resistance) thus even the low 9 volts allow for pretty high current to flow thru - luckily, the 9V batteries are low-ampere rating and that in combination that your tongue still has some resistance results in a non-lethal shock .

Conversely, when you get static electricity while brushing your hair for instance, the voltage can run in the thousands of volts but the current is miniscule so you don't really die during this daily routine... Also, remember tha days when in high school you would charge a capacitor off the mains and shock your classmate's behinds? No one died or was injured when I was involved in this type of somewhat shocking [pun intended] behavior (YMMV, based on the capacity of the capacitor)...

I can also tell you from experience, that the 7.2V or so battery that charges the internal camera flash on most consumer cameras is nothing to fear. But the internal capacitor that gets charged to fire the flash can deliver a very serious shock that feels much like a 220V off the mains - it is high voltage and high current (but luckily, short duration).

You are correct however, that all else being equal, the higher the voltage the more dangerous the situation can potentially be...

 

It's the current that kills. But it takes some voltage to overcome the resistance of your body to allow current to flow. For example, tasers are thousands of volts but tiny amount of current, and people rarely die from being tazed. But only a couple hundred volts from a supply capable of delivering many amps (think 220V wire in your house) and you have the capability to push deadly amounts of current through your body. I suspect that the 200+V from the HV battery is plenty to do some damage, especially if you're sweaty or salty when you touch the wire.

 

the old prius has 273 volts DC, i created a charger that charges in halves 139 volts each, of course the normal owner cant use this, its really dangerous, not only do you need special shielded electrodes, but also all the tools

 

Silly question:

I've been reading this thread and have a question: is it the mileage (e.g., over 100,000) or the time in service that's the "enemy" of the battery?

I ask this since I put many many miles on a car per year. I'll reach 100,000 miles in a little less than four years. Do I need to worry that I'll have an issue with the battery sooner than others?

Regards,

 

There are Prius taxis out there with high miles and no battery issues. I would guess it's time/age that catches up to the NiMH battery, not miles. Unless for some reason the car has been really abused, say a lot of electric only after running out of gas

 

i agree
a HV battery thats left unused for a longer periode is not ok!
so a car thats older with low miles is left standing a lot!
dont think that good for the HV battery

better a younger car with more miles regarding the prius i think

 

I suspect it's a bit of both.

Batteries that age tend not to work as well, and batteries can slowly start to lose some of their capacity as they go huge numbers of charging or discharging cycles. Since there are some Prius with over 300,000 miles on them, and many over 100,000 miles, that haven't had to replace their HV battery, I wouldn't be too concerned over the need to replace the HV battery in the next 8 to 10 years with the miles you are putting on the car. Certainly unexpected failures can occur with any part of a vehicle, but as for expected failures, the HV battery isn't much of a concern.

Certainly your battery is covered under warrantee for at least 100,000 miles, and maybe more depending on where you live. Worst case, the battery dies a horrible death at 100,001 miles and Toyota refuses to cover it under warrantee even partially. . . . If it costs $4,000 to replace ( you can probably find salvage or used batteries cheaper than that by then) you are looking at maybe $0.04 per mile.

On the other hand, if the battery lasts over 300,000 miles like it has in some of the highest mileage taxis and you find a salvage or used battery for under $2000, you're looking at less than 7/10ths of a cent per mile.

Keep in mind that your Prius is likely to avoid some higher price repairs that other vehicles encounter during the same time period.

You won't need the expensive transmission repairs/replacements that you might in a non-hybrid, since there is no clutch or changeable gears. The Prius transmission is more like a differential and likely to last as long (300,000+ miles).

The engine gets less use in city driving than a non hybrid, and is used more efficiently on the expressway. Additionally, the powerful starter motor creates significantly less stress on the engine when starting it up. And allows the car to get the engine up near idle speed before sending any spark or fuel. Also, the coolant thermos keeps the engine coolant warmer when the car is shut off, so the engine doesn't start up quite as cold. All this contributes to less stress on the engine, so engine repairs, rebuilds, and replacements are much less likely.

The brake pads are a cheaper but still important savings that are also possible. Since the Prius uses an electric motor/generator to do most of the braking, you'll use your brake pads much less. Depending on your driving conditions and habits, it is possible that you may not need to replace your brake pads for well over 100,000 miles.

I'm sure others can think of other maintenance and repair savings that the Prius offers, but for me these signifigant savings easily offset the potential risk of eventual battery replacement. (27,000 miles since end of April, I expect to average a bit over 36,000 per year.)

 

That applies to people too. I'm scheming on how I could put my sinister, devious mind into a 16 year old body. I could then rule the planet

 

can you post any pictures? and maybe scematics?

 

Nicely said... Applies to not just Toyota Dealers, but to most of life's working relationships....

 

i created it 3 years ago, before i started college so i havent had any real time to improve it. it charges the battery in halves, since the classic is 273 volt DC, adjusting the variac until the reading on the tester read 140, since it changes because the battery is taking the charge it requires constant adjusting back down to 140-142. I had to use this charger due to the fact that i purchased a salvaged prius that was sitting for 2 years and wouldnt start due to the MAIN +- lights on MFD, this charger does not charge at a fast rate, charging it in halves is accomplished by making each halve have the same voltage and charge time, then plugging in service plug. Essentially the service plug isolates half of the battery from the rest.
Also lacking knowledge of electronics much i basically guessed that if i plugged in the service plug with excessive voltage on one half, it would basically fry the other halve, or cause some heat. I really tried to avoid producing any heat at all during the charge process. Simply i think this is a trickle charger.

 

Also lacking knowledge of electronics ????

your kidding
NICE DIY charger