New generation 4 cylinder for future Hybrid?

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by C.RICKEY HIROSE, Aug 16, 2008.

  • by C.RICKEY HIROSE, Aug 16, 2008 at 5:42 PM
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    C.RICKEY HIROSE New Member

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    This is my own personal perspective as to this new ICE. Nothing to connect Toyota with my statement.

    This new powerplant should be sufficient for use in future Hybrid powertrain coupling and to appear from Toyota. The Sienna Hybrid could use this new 2.7 litre, so is the A-BAT Hybrid truck, Next Gen CamBrid, New line of Prius stand alone brand, featuring small cross-over wagon and so on, could also benefit. It is clean, it is powerful, it is fuel efficient..

    Toyota/Lexus/Scion Pressroom: Toyota Highlander To Feature All-New Four-Cylinder Engine

    August 14, 2008 - Torrance, CA - Toyota Motor Sales (TMS), U.S.A., Inc., announced today that the 2009 Highlander mid-size sport utility vehicle (SUV) will offer an all-new, powerful yet fuel-efficient 2.7-liter four-cylinder engine. When it arrives at dealerships in mid-to-late January, the new Highlander powerplant will be among the best mid-size SUVs in the areas of performance, fuel economy and value.

    The new 2.7-liter four-cylinder engine will generate an impressive 187 horsepower at 5,800 RPM and 186 lb.-ft. of torque at 4,100 RPM on regular 87 octane fuel. A dual exhaust manifold will help achieve exceptional low-end torque and maximize its power output. In addition to its performance output, the Highlander equipped with the new four-cylinder will be EPA-rated as an Ultra Low Emission Vehicle (ULEVII) and is expected to be among the leaders in fuel efficiency in the gas mid-size SUV segment. Official EPA fuel efficiency ratings will be announced closer to launch
    C.RICKEY HIROSE, Aug 16, 2008
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Comments

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by C.RICKEY HIROSE, Aug 16, 2008.

Page 1 of 2
  1. donee
    Hi C....,

    I am not interested in buying a Highlander, but its disappointing they are not going to offer the Highlander Hybrid with this new engine.
    donee, Aug 16, 2008
    #2
  2. hampdenwireless
    I second that. I would be very interested to see the MPG of the Camry with the new 2.7 and HSD together.
    hampdenwireless, Aug 16, 2008
    #3
  3. Tideland Prius
    Would be interesting. They could also use the 2.5 litre version of this engine if they wanted more mpg (or less weight)
    Tideland Prius, Aug 17, 2008
    #4
  4. DeadPhish
    I agree. I think that the 2.5L atkinsonized plus HSD would be a great coupling for the TCH and for the Venza hybrid eventually.

    Take the Venza as an example.
    It will have ~189 hp from the basic 2.7L 1AR
    It will have 268 hp from the upgrade 3.5L 2GR
    .
    .
    It could have ~220 hp from a 2.5L 2AR + HSD but much better FE numbers.

    This would be akin to the very clever situation of the Camry and TCH today.
    DeadPhish, Aug 17, 2008
    #5
  5. philmcneal
    it could use some direct injection, so i'm not impressed, they should have optimizing valve timing with the exhaust and the intake in the first place and not implement one after another in newer models.
    philmcneal, Aug 17, 2008
    #6
  6. ceric
    What is there to be impressed about?
    Honda's 10-year-old engine series of SOHC can achieve
    190hp/162ft-lb with 2354cc. By projection, it can make
    217hp/183ft-lb at 2700cc.
    That is 30hp more than Toyota's.

    I agree with the previous post.
    If I see direction injection like those of Audi FSI, I will be impressed.
    Wait till Honda release its new series of engine with A-VTEC with direct injection.
    Ford/Mazda is also working on direct injection engines to be release before 2012.
    I am sure Toyota is also working on that also.
    5-10% efficiency gain waiting to be had.
    ceric, Aug 18, 2008
    #7
  7. Jonnycat26
    The latest Opels make 180hp with a 2.2L DI engine.. Toyota is seriously behind the curve here.
    Jonnycat26, Aug 18, 2008
    #8
  8. Tideland Prius
    Fuel efficiency. And note that the hp on the Accord EX is at the expense of higher rpm. Note that the torque is still 162lb-ft which is about right for a 2.4 litre engine.

    Also look at the 2ZR 1.8 litre engine. Even though it's mated to a 4-spd auto, it's rated (and real-life) mpg is better than the 5-spd auto Civic with the same 1.8 litre displacement and 8hp more.
    Tideland Prius, Aug 18, 2008
    #9
  9. spwolf
    those old accord power figures are under old hp rules, and old emissions... todays engines have stricter cats as well which restrict hp and mpg as well.

    New 1.6 and 1.8 ZR series engines are class leading mpg and refinement, confirmed in real world tests.

    Toyota had direct injection engines on sale in 1999 :).
    spwolf, Aug 19, 2008
    #10
  10. Tideland Prius
    huh? this is the new Accord.. umm.. US Accord lol. They offer the same engine but in 170hp and 190hp spec. The 190hp version is just 20 more hp at a higher rpm (i think it's 6 or 7,000rpm) and not much more torque so it's probably just marketing.
    Tideland Prius, Aug 19, 2008
    #11
  11. spwolf
    heh, shows how much I know about Honda... he said 10 years so I thought it was old.

    Maximum numbers mean very little - 2ZZ-GE had 192hp in europe so what? Definetly not an engine to put in an SUV :).

    Wonderful engine though, got awesome mpg for what it was, although at the end, it was suited only to light cars.
    spwolf, Aug 19, 2008
    #12
  12. spwolf
    its 190hp at 7000 rpm and 162lbs/tq at 4400 :).

    And guess what - 170hp 5AT version has lower mpg than AZ engine in Camry, which this new AR series engine should beat by close to 10% :)
    spwolf, Aug 19, 2008
    #13
  13. spwolf
    i am getting old... in any case, let me repeat it here, as it is more relavant... earlier this year, we had dealer conference in london, for all toyota dealers... bunch of upcoming models were shown and there was talk about technology as well.

    my post from other forums on that time
    Compared to new R series, move from double VVTI to Valvematic will bring around 8% gain in economy and performance at the same time.

    ---

    I completly forgot about that :). New Valvematic engines will start to be introduced (in Europe) at start of 2009 with new iQ and then refresh Yaris.
    spwolf, Aug 19, 2008
    #14
  14. spwolf
    Also, all engines will be getting valvematic by the end of 2010...
    spwolf, Aug 19, 2008
    #15
  15. Tideland Prius
    whoa.. dual VVT-i and valvematic on the iQ? Whew, they're really going after the smart. At least the claim of being the most fuel efficient Toyota (after the Prius) is now plausible.

    192? yeesh. Ours is rated at 164hp (originally 180hp but revised ratings knocked it down to a more realistic number... i.e. closer to the whp)

    Thanks. See 162lb-ft @ 4,400rpm is very close to the 2AZ's torque spec so big deal. The 2AZ on the Camry made 156hp at 5,600rpm. I'm sure it can get close to 190hp if Toyota upped the redline to 7,000rpm. I wonder then if the Accord LX with the "standard" tune engine is a nicer drive than the EX model with the 190hp version. I'm just wondering how peaky is the engine or if the torque curve is affected at all.

    Weird eh? The 2ZR in the Corolla beats the Civic even though it's matched to a 4-spd automatic. 7.6/5.6 is the official rating (31/42mpg). That's Yaris territory! :eek:
    Tideland Prius, Aug 19, 2008
    #16
  16. spwolf
    - valvematic replaces dual vvti
    - as to the redline, due to how Lift works, power delivery in that Honda is no linear - meaning at 3000 rpm, AZ engine should have more torque. That was always the issue with VVTL-i as well, until 4,000 RPM, it behaved a lot differently - as an engine that has a lot less hp - which I personally did not mind as it had stellar fuel economy (I had Corolla TS which had 2ZZ-GE VVTL-i).
    - Toyota redesigned 2ZZ-GE in US market to make less power but more torque (2004? 2005?), thats why it was 164hp at the end (it was 17x before those new ratings, 180hp with original engine).

    So all VVTi engines will be replaced with Valvematic - that was promised until 2010 by Toyota European boss.

    Compared to old ZZ/NZ/AZ series, it should be 15% improvement (R block + valvematic together) which is huge improvement for petrol engines...
    spwolf, Aug 20, 2008
    #17
  17. spwolf
    p.s. Smart does not have great fuel economy for car of its size - Aygo already beats it with 1.0 engine, and iQ will have around 10% less consumption than Aygo.
    spwolf, Aug 20, 2008
    #18
  18. Tideland Prius
    how does it replace Dual VVT-i if it's barely in place (esp. here in NA)?

    I see that you have an Auris 1.6. Nice!! How's the CVT and how does it drive?

    It's decent. It's the most fuel efficient non-hybrid in Canada and the US lol. I can assure you if the iQ was available now, I would've bought that instead mostly cause it's a Toyota.
    Tideland Prius, Aug 20, 2008
    #19
  19. spwolf
    It should replace it by 2010... Word from Toyota euro execs.
    I would guess that they did not have time to implement it and didnt want to delay new R series engines for it... In any case, they said it would be on every petrol engine. It makes sense if it is significantly better in both power and mpg, while not being more expensive.

    Auris 1.6 is not CVT - it is MMT, like DSG just with single clutch... Its ok - it gets mileage of manual, with half of the cost of automatic transmission. You still have to think a bit to make it work the best, but if you do, it works well. It has paddle shifters to change gears as well. Looks pretty cool. Latest version in Auris is the best implementation yet. They also have them for diesel engine (1.4 D4D).
    spwolf, Aug 20, 2008
    #20
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