New PiP Owners...More data please!!!

it definitely regen's more aggresively. a hill i go down every workday used to get me up to 44-45 mph in my 08. in the pip i only hit 40-41. you can feel it holding back.

In "regular" hybrid mode, the PiP will glide electrically almost forever. The ICE will still startup if torque or speed is high enough, but there's a lot more battery that it can glide with, IF you're driving on a road that's conducive to gliding at 30 to 40 MPH for twenty miles. In this case, although the ICE may still start, I bet a careful driver could hit 150 to 200 MPG.

Still one pip showing, but it was close enough to need a refill...

DISPLAYED:

848 miles total
454 miles EV
393 miles HV
111 MPG
92 kWh

CALCULATED:

104.9 MPG
103.2 kWh

MEASURED:

33.3 recharges
8.077 gallons

That was a very exciting tank; though, waiting 2.5 weeks for the real-world data was an exercise in patience. It takes a long time to drive far enough to need to visit the gas station.

Interesting.. have seen discrepancies in gas/MPG before. Why do you think the kWh is so far off?
Is one in the car and the other at the wall?

I know the feeling of waiting.. to update fuelly I have to do full tanks with take months (my sig is just done with my electric bill so I can allocate costs). The PC PiP MPG spreadsheet is slowly rising as the more efficient divers take longer to add data, while those burning a lot of gas are on multiple tanks.

It makes sense that the measured wattage -- what leaves the wall outlet -- will be higher than the wattage consumed by the car's electric motors. What confounds me is how the car reports its consumed wattage without mixing in the regenerated electricity.

Perhaps the charge goes into the battery when the unplugged gets ignored.

Yes, it makes sense that the wall measurement would be higher.. (I expect that is the answer) but I wanted to be sure. Earlier measurements suggested the charger was 85% efficient. If this is wall measured (not just estimated) and car reported then it suggests
only different losses and maybe the MPG spreadsheet should be updated.

It could measuring its initial and final battery state and doing a computation based on that.. so its just the net energy. It would be interesting to see what happens if you reset EV2, with a partially depleted battery, at the top of a big hill.

I have one question: is there any information about how high charging cycles numbers will impact in battery life? I am reading experiences about three or four charging cycles a day what for me sounds a lot.. Thanks in advance

There are 4 major factors which affect lithium battery cycle life:

1. Time (lithium batteries age just sitting there - they do have a shelf life)
2. Temperature (more time spent at higher temps = faster degradation)
3. State of charge (more time spent at high SOC = faster degradation)
4. Cycles (more cycles = faster degradation)

Increase any of these and your battery will degrade the fastest - combining multiple factors will be worse. For example, letting the car sit for a long period of time fully charged in the desert summer heat will quickly degrade the battery.

How one can mitigate these factors:

1. Time: Nothing you can do!
2. Temp: Park in the shade, leave windows cracked when parked in sun.
3. SOC: Use a charge timer so that the car doesn't finish charge until shortly before you leave. Don't store car with full battery.
4. Don't charge the car as often.

Obviously 4 isn't going to happen since you want to maximize EV miles - after all, that's why you bought the car!

So it only makes sense to disregard #3 and do the opposite - you goal should be to put on as many cycles on the battery as possible to maximize your use of the battery in the shortest period of time since the clock is ticking anyway!

Doing so maximizes your return on investment. If you wear out the battery from putting it through too many cycles, that's a good thing as it means you've effectively used the battery better than someone who lets the car sit for 10 years but rarely charges it.

Yup, that's it.

Knowing the efficiency from the point-of-view of the vehicle itself is informative. But like you, I would also like to know how much I'm consuming overall (conversion losses) and what the electric bill will be.

I always found that fascinating how regen is treated differently. It's outcome which matters. But for people like us, we like to know stuff like that.

Toyota provides extra for us, to enhance the ownership experience. And it does!

Thanks.. I had not see you post kWh stuff on the MPG sheet.

I considered it, but the implied charging efficiency seemed a tad high. For comparison I just checked the MPG sheet and I see a wide range. (And crewdog's data is just crazy.. probably a typo)

Code:

Member    Miles    Gallon  "Wall kWh" HSI kWh  Efficency  Raw MPG"  "HSI MPG"   
ukr2     254.60    4.46    10.32       8        78%       57.06      59         
crewdog  557.60    7.94    29.09       24       83%       70.24      76         
crewdog  733.40    7.57    71.29       61       86%       96.80      99         
ukr2    1045.00    8.88    187.90      161      86%       117.75     123        
ukr2     725.20    8.69    79.59       70       88%       83.50      85         
JOHN171a 848.00    8.08    103.20      92       89%       104.90     111        
jjbradley711.00    6.78    82.50       76       92%       104.94     108        
crewdog 1022.20    8.56    110.00      138      125%      119.40     122        

This morning, as an experiment, I decided to see how far I could drive in pure EV mode before the ICE turned on. My only self imposed restriction (driving slow was OK as long as I didn't annoy other drivers) was that I must begin and end in my garage so that altitude changes and wind direction would not bias my test. Unfortunately, I forgot to begin going home soon enough and the engine fired up 0.6 miles from my house. I had slowly driven 22.1 miles on one full EV charge.

It is interesting to note that the final mpg after the ICE finished the warm up cycle was 927 mpg. I had driven a total of 22.7 miles (outside temperature = 70F). Since the ICE had finished it's warm up cycle, I could have driven farther without using any more gas but I chose not to (meaning my final mpg could easily have been higher, one must not look at the ICE warm up cycle merely as a waste of gas).

This equates to 0.0245 gallons of gas for ICE warm up.

(40 ICE warm up cycles / gallon of gas)

Not bad!

Here's my best so far.
Calculated and indicated are spot on. I even did three clicks after the pump stopped.
This car is far MORE than I had hoped.
I'm on vacation next week and hope to break 100MPG.

$3.539/gal. Sigh. I just filled up at Costco for $4.199, which is about as cheap as one can get around here. The scam they run here in California is saying that that state emission rules require a special blend that is only produced in California, and there always seems to be several of the refineries in the state down for "maintenance".

Well there is an actual difference in Cali blend (both winter and summer blend). if you've not seen it there is interest read on the issue and why it costs more..
http://www.fuelingcalifornia.org/wp.../Fueling-California-Exec-Summary-Only-HQP.pdf

But most of the cost is speculation and supply issues, though one might wonder how many of the maintenance issues are some caused to to help maintain the profits.

But there is some hope for you yet.. prices are expected to drop finally

California-Blend Gasoline Tumbles to Two-Week Low on Unit Starts- Bloomberg

@9Gman.. your getting so close to 100, but fair no wasting fuel and taking pointless slow drives on vacation just to get there. But maybe you can get in more mid-day recharges, and take someone shopping to stores that have chargers ;-)

That was over a week ago.....Today, gas is $3.39.

Not me. I don't do anything artificial for bigger MPG numbers. It's just that next week I won't be making my 96 mile r/t drive to work, which can keep me in the 80's. Just more short trips and more charging.

Some truly incredible numbers John, I don't think that can be beat. Congradulations.

My first fill up since purchase on April 30th:

Miles Driven: 1040
Gallons purchased: 7.112
Cons 146
EV 61% - 642 miles
HV 39% - 397 miles
Kwh - 163
Fuel Saved by charge Approximately 13.6 g

My simple divide miles by gallons = 146 MPGe

I put data into fuelly and it gave me 0 because it says it doesn't have enough data for me.

Very pleased with the initial data. But I did work extra hard to get as many charges as possible. Next tank I will ease up a little so as to not stress so much about charging

Over a thousand miles tank. That's awesome.

The important part is... you used 163 kWh of electricity to save 13.6 gallon of gas.

That's a worthy trade that no other plugin hybrid can top.

Howdy all:

just refueled and here's the data:

637.1 mi
7.75 gal at first click
82.2 mpg calculated
85 mpg indicated, 31 mph avg
EV 30% 195 mi / HV 70% 436 mi
38 kwh indicated / 7g used
fuel saved 3.2g
Kill-a-watt shows 46.47 kwh