<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(clett @ May 25 2006, 04:52 AM) [snapback]260821[/snapback]</div>

It is promising, but two caveats: the battery will need to be replaced about every 5 years, and it won't be available except in demo cars for the next year. But we're definitely closing in on a practical PHEV that will appeal to the general public.

This is a more vialbe solution, sure it doesn't have the sexiness of Li-Ion batteries but 25 miles would be just enough for me to EV to/from work (and I commute on backroads <40mph). Still battery lifestpan is a concern as 25 miles is what I need so any drop would make it not work. So I would need to see real world data on this before I believe it and it would have to be 25 real world miles (no 25 miles on a flat road, in reality you get 7 crap).

Still, I'm getting more an more hopeful that I will be driving a plug-in or EV car soon!

One ebayer is presently hoping to sell his Prius HV battery as part of a PHEV conversion. That would reduce the total cost a bit, but it seems like burning one's bridges to me. Shrug.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(nerfer @ May 25 2006, 09:55 AM) [snapback]260882[/snapback]</div>

Actually, it is the most promising... since it's approach is the only one that actually tries to fulfills the market desire. Put simple, people want an augment that fulls into the realm of realistic prices. None of the others even attempt that, instead, their focus is on maximum efficiency gain. $5,000 is the limit that surveys have expressed as the limit. They are attempting to deliver that.

When the warranty (100,000 miles) is reached, some of us will be ready take our chances with an upgrade. I'm not sure how many people are actually willing to do that any earlier. So the potential for quite an aftermarket demand is definitely there.

Where did the "5 year" concern come from? If the system doesn't allow deep-discharges, the battery-pack should last a remarkably long time. The upgrade provides is increased capacity, no change to the way the system behaves.

This is getting way close to my limit. 25 mi would do it for me on a day to day basis. I might even get work to install a plug for me. At 5k my wife would only maim me not kill me!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hdrygas @ May 25 2006, 03:53 PM) [snapback]261016[/snapback]</div>

I assume this Prius mod would still be subject to the limitations of EV mode. You would still be predominatly using the ICE if you drive over 34 mph.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Marlin @ May 25 2006, 01:01 PM) [snapback]261021[/snapback]</div>

Well I could live with that. I am not sure about the people behind me? 34 MPH is one MPH below the speed limit on part of my trip and going that slow is very bad. I will coast down to 34 or 33 and they get very anxious. Going 37 or 38 in a 35 does not seem to help?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Marlin @ May 25 2006, 03:01 PM) [snapback]261021[/snapback]</div>

I sure hope that misconception doesn't get out of hand.

The electric-motor will still contribute significantly beyond the range of EV. The only difference is the engine will be active too. It may not be used as much as you think though. The impression of "using the ICE" most people have is that much of the hybrid aspect is lost... which couldn't be further from the truth. In reality, the use of gas will be surprisingly low and sometimes not at all.

Try driving down a long decent into a river valley or canyon. The battery-pack will display 8-bars (full green). Watch what happens while you drive along roads on the bottom. The MPG will still be remarkably high, even though the engine runs. That is an example of how the system will work after the plug-in upgrade.

It's these dang current plug-in aftermarket ventures that are causing the misconception to manifest. They focus so heavily on the EV portion that people have no clue what happens at other times. This can be easily changed to, but none have bothered. That's very frustrating. All we get is tiny MPG samples, limited test drives. Where's the actual data? There is no on-going results posted anywhere. A not-so-secret to my success has been the piles of raw data I publish. People can draw conclusions on their own, because they have numbers available. From the plug-in people, we get nothing. That is very disappointing.

The lack of data allows the misconception to grow. That will ultimately impede their efforts. How can we finally get them to publish some actual continuous real-world numbers?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(john1701a @ May 25 2006, 11:52 PM) [snapback]261182[/snapback]</div>

When the Amberjac conversions become more widely available in the UK later this year, there will be plenty of takers and I'm sure some of them will be happy to post their experiences for us here.

Not sure when the Edrive or Hymotion conversions are meant to be available to the public, but we can recruit some US based PHEV first-adopters from them too.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(clett @ May 25 2006, 01:52 AM) [snapback]260821[/snapback]</div>

Just a rough calculation based on some recent gas rates, e.g., $3.50/gallon :

$5000/$3.50 * 50 mpg = 71,428 petrol miles

actually, many more if you include what additional gas your kilowatt hours could buy.

Regards,

Matt

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(clett @ May 25 2006, 05:52 AM) [snapback]260821[/snapback]</div>

The price of the conversion is speculative if you read the article. It's not a $5,000 conversion they're talking about, it is a $5,000 increase in the price of a Prius when purchased all ready kitted-out with the battery upgrade and plug-in option.

I note several in the forum are asking for "real-world" mileage estimates for EV. The folks at CalCars all ready publish them. In fact, they're suggesting that one's hybrid will get 100+ mpg plus electricity, 30-mile range, with lithium-ion batteries using the EDrive/EnergyCS system. Up until last fall, my daily commute was 36 miles each way, much of which was on an Interstate highway. With a conversion kit I would most probably have gotten an average of 50 MPG, maybe 55 if I went back roads and was not in a hurry.

The car I replaced was a Honda Civic. It got around 35 miles per gallon, was small, old and beginning to need major repairs. I'm currently able to achieve a solid 43 miles per gallon and will be doing a tire pressure check to see if I cannot achieve better.

Assuming a 10,000 mile year (though I'm sure I was driving more than that per year in the Honda) and $3.00 per gallon gasoline, my yearly savings with the Prius at current MPG performance is just shy of $160. At $3.25 per gallon, it's about $173. Increase MPG to 50 and you're looking at a $257.00 savings at $3.00 per gallon. At $3.25, you're saving about $279. Increase mileage to 55 and with $3.00 per gallon gasoline, you save $312, $338 if gas is $3.25 per gallon.

But there are other factors.

The Honda had a back seat that an adult could not sit in. It had cloth seats (my daughter dropped an ice cream cone on the back seat about a month before I turned it in). My Prius has leather. My daughter sat cross-legged and made her seat dirty. A damp cloth fixed the problem. The Prius has a back area that can haul stuff almost as well as our SUV (a nice Honda CR-V).

So the Prius is a serious upgrade in terms of mileage, savings at the gas pump and so on. But I'm also being greener, though not by that much as compared to the Honda Civic, which is pretty green for a normal car. Essentially what I did was to upgrade from a 2-door subcompact to a midsized sedan that is easier on gas and the environment.

And that is the direction we probably need to go in—bigger cars need to be more miserly on gas and cleaner as we buy newer. And as the article points out, they need to start coming from the manufacturer.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mhollis @ Jun 7 2007, 10:43 AM) [snapback]457315[/snapback]</div>

The battery still adds power at highway speeds with the conversion too. So long as you keep to reasonable speeds, you can get much better mpgs. When electric-assist is on (ie there is still charge in the second battery), tests show you can get the following mpgs at set speeds:

At 50 mph ~ 180 mpg
At 55 mph ~ 130 mpg
At 60 mph ~ 100 mpg
At 70 mph ~ 80 mpg

There is a big drop in mpgs above 70 mph because the battery can only provide about 21 kW (stock limitation set by Toyota). I think over your 36 mile commute you would probably have averaged about 100 mpg + electricity.

Re: New plug-in Prius conversion option - $15,000

I just got a plig in supply 10 kw lithium plug in conversion.

It's better than the new GM volt and I have it today. I can drive 30-40 miles all electric at the push of a button, or got super hybrid for 100 miles at over 100 mpg. AMAZING

www.greenmotorsinc.com

I can deactivate the ICE on my pluginsupply.com PHEV system. We go 30-35 miles all the time. It's the best I have seen and after I got it I feel it's even better.
10 Kw lithium batteries with a balancer system that also checks temperatures. I call it a Tesla in my Trunk. It beat an esso tiger in your tank anyday. No foreigh oil unless you have to go on a far trip.

Re: New plug-in Prius conversion option - $5,000

I already did my 05 prius in Sept 2009 with a pluginsupply.com Lithium 10 Kw system. We go 30-35 miles in all electric at up to 52 mph. our work commute is about 24 miles so we have been driving pure electric for 3 months with no problem.
The battery system is only used 60% if you go 30-40 miles and drain it low. It should last 10-12 years. I love it. We get a gallon of gas a month just in case we have a longer drive every once in a while. It cost less than if I traded for a 2010 that only gets 50 mpg.

Re: New plug-in Prius conversion option - $5,000

Does this in any way help us predict/estimate what a Toyota factory PHV will (should) cost compared to a normal Prius?

Re: New plug-in Prius conversion option - $5,000

It was more than three years old news.
It's now only twice cost, or US$60k, a Toyota factory PHV.
http://priuschat.com/forums/prius-hybrid-news/73267-jp-2010-prius-plug-in-price-5-250-000-yen.html

Ken@Japan