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NEW!!! Service Bulletin for Engine Knocking at Startup T-SB 0012-10

Discussion in 'Gen III 2010+ Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubles' started by seilerts, Jan 12, 2012.

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  1. seilerts

    seilerts Battery Curmudgeon

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    Hurray!!! Toyota have finally acknowledged the underlying problem of knocking on a very cold start and have redesigned the intake manifold to correct it. See attached.

    Attached Files:

    VD101, etobia, bwilson4web and 14 others like this.
  2. jdcollins5

    jdcollins5 Senior Member

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    Am I reading this correctly that you will have to throw a DTC before they will replace?
  3. El Dobro

    El Dobro A Member

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    No, it says if one or more of the conditions are exhibited.
  4. seilerts

    seilerts Battery Curmudgeon

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    It says one or more of the following: P030x, initially runs rough, loud knocking.

    Anybody ever see P030x on their ScanGauge, or have it pulled as a pending or historical DTC?

    Here is the requirement from the service manual for setting P030x. Since cold start knocking may not happen twice in a row very often, it seems unlikely that it would ever get past the pending state, due to two OBD trip detection logic.

    The ECM illuminates the MIL and sets a DTC when either one of the following conditions, which could cause emission control system performance deterioration, is detected (2 trip detection logic).

    • Within the first 1000 crankshaft revolutions of the engine starting, an excessive misfiring rate (approximately 20 to 50 misfires per 1000 crankshaft revolutions) occurs once.
    • An excessive misfiring rate (approximately 20 to 50 misfires per 1000 crankshaft revolutions) occurs a total of 4 times.


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  5. jdcollins5

    jdcollins5 Senior Member

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    Later in the TSB it talks about reading the DTC, replacing the manifold and then making sure the DTC is reset.

    I was just not sure that this was saying that they were expecting to see a DTC. Mine has never thrown a DTC when this event happened.
  6. seilerts

    seilerts Battery Curmudgeon

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    I think very few people would see the check engine light. You'd need to have cold-start knocking on two successive start-ups, with at least 10 minutes of driving on each trip. If, for example, you turn the car on, it starts knocking, then you turn it off to avoid damage, this would never get recorded.
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  7. wick1ert

    wick1ert Senior Member

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    Neither has mine. I've experienced it twice, most recently about 2 months ago. I've even had TechStream hooked up since that time, and the "health check" came back OK and never had any check-engine light show up to notify of a DTC.

    I'll definitely be calling my local dealer to schedule this, and make sure to alert them to the fact it's happened twice now.
  8. spiderman

    spiderman wretched

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    This is good. Hard to believe it is caused by the IM.

    There was at least one member here that reported DTC/Check Engine Light during the episode.

    Man, my car will be in the shop for a while with all these TSBs piling up. :)
  9. jdcollins5

    jdcollins5 Senior Member

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    Yes it is hard to believe that it is the intake manifold. The two times it happened to me was within the first 5000 miles. This could hardly be caused by buildup in the intake manifold. Unless of course there are other unknown reasons why they are saying this.
  10. tumbleweed

    tumbleweed Senior Member

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    Mine did it several times the first winter I had the car, maybe twice last winter, and not at all so far this winter. I don't understand how it could "fix itself" either. :confused: But I'm not complaining.

    I talked to my Service Manager today to schedule the motor mount and gas strut replacements. I had him enter the problem into my service history so I will be covered if it reoccurs after 60K miles. I don't want to be bit by the extended warranty problem again.

    EDIT: Just reread the TSB and realized that since I am from Oregon I am covered out to 150K miles/180 months for this TSB.

    The Service Manager also thought any one of the three reasons on the new TSB would be sufficient for the manifold replacement, I told him I had never had a DTC with this car.
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  11. josh2008

    josh2008 Hyundai Tech

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    I just called the dealership I used to work for, they will be replacing mine on Wednesday. :) They will also be replacing my window master switch set then as well (the r/r window no longer functions from the master switch). This is exciting, Toyota taking care of problems as usual. :)
  12. unreal

    unreal Junior Member

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    thanks for the info, im gonna make an appt. for this..
  13. Skoorbmax

    Skoorbmax Senior Member

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    CEL for this is basically never going to happen, neither is reproducing at the dealership. Will they take our word for it if we show up and report the issue?

    About time they addressed it.

    I reiterate the first time this happened I am pretty darn sure it was above 40F.
  14. wick1ert

    wick1ert Senior Member

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    But was the temperature during the majority of the time the car sat in the "cold soak" under 40F? I think that's the key, as the first time it happened to me it was over 40F when I started the car, but it was in the 20s/30s overnight when it soaked.

    I think that they'll take your word for it if you show up and report the issue. I called mine today, and they said to bring the car & TSB in and they'd confirm it falls under the TSB and then order the parts. Apparently, they don't typically get the TSBs until about a week or so after Toyota issues them, or so they claim. I think they want to try and upsell me on something else too, but we shall see.
  15. Kore971

    Kore971 PEDD-CESC

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    The dealerships have the TSB already, so if you bring the car in it should be fixed..., but for sure this fixes the issue, ive seen it first hand, the new manifold has numerous ridges in the part of the manifold where it connects to the egr pipe..., whereas the old one it completely straight..., the ridges act like a dam preventing the water that gets built up in the egr pipe from being sucked into the cylinders all at once (which is what happens in the morning on a cold startup), now it allows the water to atomize properly...
  16. SmogSlide

    SmogSlide Member

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    Guess Toyota takes you all in the north more seriously, not so in Australia. There are other TSBs which I wish my local dealer could have done for me, including this engine knocking at cold start.

    I am taking mine in for a service tomorrow and will mention this. But as before, we (Toyota Australia) probably don't have this TSBs in their service schedules.

    Can anyone in the US fix our problems with Toyota Australia?

    Sent from my GT-I9100T using Tapatalk
    OzPrius likes this.
  17. duffasaurus

    duffasaurus Senior Member

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    Had both TSBs installed. One on Wed. and the other today. The RR engine mount was on backorder, but arrive in two days. The intake manifold was in stock and arrived today for install. The dealer offered to put me on the payroll for all the time I spend there in the last two day! :) Time will tell if this was all worth the trouble!
    1 person likes this.
  18. cycledrum

    cycledrum PSOCSOASP

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    Thanks guys! Got mine printed out. Never happened. Covered for 15 yrs/150k in CA.

    I'm under the 2406 VIN, so it's subject. I assume Toyota Auto Body is in Japan.
  19. El Dobro

    El Dobro A Member

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    This one thing that's throwing me is the VIN listings on the TSB. From other TSBs, there's usually a VIN list for all three factories. If I'm reading it correctly, the listings show Tsutsumi line#2 and the Fugimatsu plant, but not Tsutsumi line#1. Correct?
  20. HTMLSpinnr

    HTMLSpinnr Moderator Staff Member

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    ***Mod Note*** Sticking thread.

    Good news - never had it on mine (though valve train is a bit noisier in the AM - not the same issue)
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