<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tideland Prius @ Feb 5 2007, 11:47 AM) [snapback]385621[/snapback]</div>

If I understand you correctly, indeed, this would be the second "formally announced hybrid" vehicle.

According to the "investor circles" and long time public knowledge, they will be producing a uniquely styled, versatile family hybrid that not only is "cheaper" than the current Civic but more fuel efficient as well. This will also be a vehicle with a much larger production volume capacity than the Civic. If I recall correctly, Honda is maxed at a nominal 28K units per year for the current Civic, but due to the demand they managed to squeeze an additional 4-5 thousand in 2006 out of their single HCH-2 plant in Japan.

The second hybrid they've been planning is a sports coupe. I guess it could be seen as the "direct" descendent of the Insight with a much stronger emphasis on performance.
Of course, in typical and quirky Honda fashion, it is hard to tell what the specific powerplant characteristics and specs are until the vehicle nears production and parts suppliers start spilling a few details here and there.


Cheers;

MSantos

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MSantos @ Feb 5 2007, 01:10 PM) [snapback]385634[/snapback]</div>

Do you have any more info about this car? Will it be based on the FIT or a larger car? Any idea of when it will be released?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SomervillePrius @ Feb 5 2007, 02:28 PM) [snapback]385674[/snapback]</div>

Since we lack any concrete information, the FIT is a good baseline to start with. However, the FIT is a 4-5 year old platform and some of the releases have indicated that the European 5 door model should be the best comparision we have.

This new family oriented hybrid should be released in the 2008-2009 timeframe. Also at the same time the "Hybrid Scooter" is also expected to make a debut in many markets. Perhaps ours being one of them.

http://world.honda.com/news/2004/2040824_02.html

Cheers;

MSantos

I hope Honda releases more dedicated hyrbid systems. None of the "retro fitted" models (from Toyota, Honda or Ford) are that attractive to me. The scooter is not bad, but I'm more hoping for an EV scooter with 30 mile range and 4-6 hour recharge. I would be able to commute on that 6-8 months of the year.

Cool engine.

These concept cars are always just a tease of course, but it is interesting how Honda and Toyota measure up. While Toyota focuses on building "Full Hybrids" and maximizing the interaction of electric and gasoline - expanding the role of the electric more and more - Honda seems to focus on increasing the fuel efficiency of the gasoline engine itself, with the electric portion playing a minor role in simply helping that gas engine out.

I keep wondering when Honda is going to move forward with a full-hybrid system of their own, and many wonder why Toyota hasn't used more tricks in the Prius gas engine for efficiency, but it appears they've each chosen their tracks and might not merge for some time.

Very cool to see 2 great R&D departments compete and arrive at such similar EPA numbers over and over with such different approaches.

Either one should be a rag-top!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SoopahMan @ Feb 6 2007, 03:40 PM) [snapback]386294[/snapback]</div>

You got it - Honda has the ICE - Toyota stresses the motor

It's a shame they could not share their technology.

IMHO, Honda will be hurt when plug-in hybrids make headway, unless they really rework or replace the current IMA system

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MSantos @ Feb 5 2007, 04:00 PM) [snapback]385711[/snapback]</div>

If I'm doing this right, I figure the new scooter gets unbelieveable gas mileage!

The article says it gets 1.6 times the fuel efficiency of the Dio Z4. I found an article showing the Z4 as getting 80km/L, or 1.3L/100km. That's 180mpg. 1.6 times that is...

288mpg!!!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SoopahMan @ Feb 6 2007, 03:40 PM) [snapback]386294[/snapback]</div>

The "full hybrid" moniker has much merit particularly from an academic perspective. There is no denying that. But, drumming up the "full-hybrid" noise is in my view, premature and precocious because the results have not cleared the extisting "full-hybrids" as the only path to the future. They are just one of those paths and at best, they remain crude interpretations of that future.

Furthermore, Honda has consistently stated (and shown) that they place the SAME amount of research and innovation into their gas driven source (ICE) as they do for the electric side of their Hybrid solution. Their argument is that the ICE is the primary power source, and I tend to agree as do most, that it deserves as many optimizations as each company can afford (by legacy, Honda can afford more).
I believe as you do, that Toyota focused more on the electric side of their Hybrid solution than they did on their ICE. I still do not know which path is the best, because unlike some here at PC, I own vehicles with both hybrid systems and I cannot declare one the winner (at least not yet).

Both companies are top notch to me and I look forward to see them BOTH continuing to offer us an evolving snapshot of the future.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SoopahMan @ Feb 6 2007, 03:40 PM) [snapback]386294[/snapback]</div>

Honda will likely not offer a "full-hybrid" anytime soon. You can write this down, please ! At least... for as long as the ICE remains as the primary power source. As some will agree it is too early (if not premature) to consider a "full-hybrid" as the ideal platform. A balanced interpretation would still deem it with "greater potential" but saddly, just marginally better based on real world results.
Instead, most would also agree that a more optimal implementation would resemble a perfect series hybrid platform, not the current series/parallel (HSD), and parallel architectures (IMA) we have today.

Now, if you are still not satisfied with my answer thus far, then I would suggest you look at the specifications of the upcoming Honda FCX (they are all over the net). I believe that once you look at them carefully, you'll see that Honda did not choose a direction that much different from Toyota or any other manufacturer concerned about its future.

Of the two companies (Honda and Toyota) Honda is clearly the one that knows and implements ICE technology better - no contest - agreed? So it is not surprising that they would add as much innovation to their gas engine as they do to the electric side powertrain - Hence IMA. You will not see anything more than an iterative evolution of their current system, because after all, results matter more.


Cheers;

MSantos

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MechaJohn @ Feb 6 2007, 04:24 PM) [snapback]386336[/snapback]</div>

Sorry:

80km/L = 1.25 l/100km ==> 188.17 mpg (US)


Cheers;

MSantos