Discussion in 'Chevrolet Volt' started by austingreen, Jun 14, 2012.
There's a huge difference between providing a sample and drawing a conclusion.
yep.. a huge difference. Providing sufficient supporting data is needed to draw a good conclusion. if you think I've put forth a non-supported conclusion please point it out, and I'll provide the reference data to bolster the conclusion
On the other hand, including a single misleading sample, by someone that talks about data, comes across as an attempt to get readers to draw in invalid conclusion while being able to say "I was just providing data. " Since I straddle the engineering/marketing boundary (as an tech entrepreneur and eng prof) I'm very used to that tacit and call people on it.
But, these are just "rumors", are they not?
I have heard glowing reviews of John's posts/threads in the past which are very much at odds with what I have seen lately from him.
But him announcing that he is 'unwatching' a thread and then 'ignoring' a poster just remind me of our 4 year old nephew picking up their ball and stomping off.
Especially when the poster they announce they are ignoring has been even handed, fair to the Prius and offering any data requested.
John, I hope you can get that chip off your shoulder and recognize that many people here are interested in improving ALL PHEVs and EVs.
Lowering expectations is exactly what the auto task-force warned about. Remember the "too little, too slowly" concern?
Why should we just settle for something out of reach for mainstream consumers?
Remember back when we use to strive for ambitious goals? Now there is trepidation about even just stating goals.
You know the recent backlash & downplay is due to the sales falling way short. It wouldn't be so bad if the overlooking of PHV the belittling finally ended. But those who speak out get catechized. Where's the choice for the masses?
Striving to achieve more?
Technically speaking, the Volt,IMHO, is a much bigger leap forward than the PiP is.
True, GM's marketing was a disaster as usual. But what they delivered is a very good product. And they re standing behind it and continuing to improve it.
The PiP, IMHO, is lackluster. Little better than some 3rd party addons to the Prius.
That is NOT to say it is a bad car, it is a very good car. And due to its lower price and Toyota quality I would expect it to overtake the Volt in sales rapidly.
And what "belittling" of the PHV? I don't 'get' why you seem to take anyone finding a non-Toyota product works better for them as a so personally?
Yes we've seen you write that phrase many time, with no supporting evidence. Yes the PiP is too litte, too slowly, but toyota is trying. GM's volt is a better step forward and was earlier to market, but the slow acceptance of the market has many factors.
No I don't remember when we used to strive for ambitious goals. I've not see any PC members have ambitous goals, a few looked to move to solar + a PiP, but if you want to talk about ambitous goals, the Leaf and Volt owners that have made the personal shift to reduce gas to near zero, that is as ambiguous as I've seen. Don't see that here.
Some of the companies have had ambitious goals, when the economy was doing well some were more agressive in their public statements. There is always a bit of marketing bravado, and GM missed its estimates. You can whine about wanting new goals, but I think its unrealistic to expect new ones as they will do little to add value for GM, and missing again would be bad press. But at least they have been continuing to work on product development, which is what is behind the rumors and articles about the next generation Voltec systems.
And with a pricing within 10% of the average vehichle price, many of the PHEV/EV are already within reach for mainstream consumers. Its not within the reach of the low-end of the mainstream, but there is a wide range of "mainstream" customers and the recent volt sales have been shifting from early adopters to early-mainstream.
No we don't know that is the cause of any preceived backlash/downplay and I don't believe there is any data to support such a silly assertion. I don't even think there is a backlash/downplay, just people calling you on poor posts, unsupported accusation and misrepresentation of the past. If anything its just that the slack people cut you has run out.
I thought your main complaint was too much range and power too quickly. What is little? What is slow?
I don't know kemosabe, that seems the opposite of the first thing. No one is telling you to buy a volt or a tesla or a ferrari. If you don't know why people talk of such things, you don't understand human nature. You don't seem to emphasis the homogenized yaris, or versa, or sonic or those other mainstream affordable cars either.
The backlash is because of your continuous chirping and whining. If you add meaningfull comments we won't criticise, but posts like this are just well dumb.
This isn't a thread about the phv. Not every thread needs to be about the phv, but certainly we all entertained ideas about it. But what did you do? You talked about hype, then low goals, then tax credit, the the fleet fuel economy, then I don't know too little data, then your outlier data on a personal trip. All of this just sounds wrong and off topic. No body belittled the phv here. This is not a thread about a peoples car, nor is the prius.
Speculation emerged from vague & ambiguous comments, leading to assumptions without any solid source. Hope contributed to what ended up being hype, then disappointment. It's a vicious cycle.I heard rumors that GM is going to give owners the option of doing a Blend Stratergy in addition to the conventional current setup. That is pretty exciting and interesting.Rumors do that.
Well did you forget how I diagrammed that? Blended mode on the caddi sounds pretty likely, especially if a 2L turbo is involved. We get a 1.4L DI its less likely. I put it likely because this is what the ford energi is doing, and I can't imagine the ELR having less horsepower. Car and driver has a slightly different rumor about a more power full battery in the cadilac and getting more power that way. But its not hype. That would be something like it will do 0-60 in 6 seconds and get 60 mpg in charge sustain mode. No one is saying anything like that. No one on this thread will be disappointed if there isn't a blended mode. So how could there be a vicious cycle, if you don't even know that the rumor is off? No hype, no disappointment. That is unless you really are a volt hater, and you are disappointed that gm is investing in improving it. Maybe that is the vicious cycle you think is going on.
I think the recent marketing for the Volt has improved. We have a bunch of new commercials here featuring happy owners talking about their experiences with the car.
2014 Cadillac ELR Revealed at Detroit Autoshow! Published on Jan 14, 2013
Contributing Editor Csaba Csere gives an in-depth and comprehensive look at the 2014 Cadillac ELR from the 2013 Detroit Auto Show on the latest episode of Car and Driver:
I like the interior. Was bummed that we didn't get more range, although not surprised.
Looks like I will either stick with the Volt or get a pure EV when the Volt's lease is up.
Damn, over 4,000 lbs.
Mmmm, Beefy !
Wow! this ELR Voltec is one sharp-looking coupe, and silly me thought it would be around $50,000.
So was a Hummer.
Less aerodynamic. I think above 0.30 cd. If $60-75k after $7,500 tax credit is true, that's about double the price of Volt.
The ELR Coupe is really nice, but the mid-range 60 kwh Tesla Model S starts at $62,000
Model S Options & Pricing | Tesla Motors
Well USB, you may have an inate dislike for anything GM, but even you have to admit the ELR is a huge improvement over the Hummer
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