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NHW11 Traction Battery Replacement

Discussion in 'Generation 1 Prius Discussion' started by bwilson4web, Aug 19, 2010.

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  1. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web 03 and 10 Prius

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    Originally posted in a Gen II forum, it applies here too:

    http://priuschat.com/forums/gen-ii-...ut-cry-05-prius-battery-died.html#post1168255



    Traction battery failures vary but this seems to be a common pattern. As the traction battery fails, the car continues to operate . . . sort of. This is one of many reports of people nursing their car for a couple of weeks or even a month or so. But it is like driving a car with rod knock . . . eventually it will fail hard.

    Personally, I like the idea of USA based, depot maintenance for the hybrid traction batteries. Unlike the lone individual or shop, a depot that specializes in traction battery repair can:

    • survey all modules - those that are dead go to recycling and the others go into an inventory pool that is maintained of known capacity.
    • assemble balanced packs - with an inventory of modules, the depot can build balanced, module packs. It is less a question of individual module Ahr as much as making sure all modules are very close in capacity.
    • accumulated wisdom - with a reputation to maintain and warranty, a depot has a vested interest in continuous improvement. With the lessons of hindsight from the returned traction batteries, they can materially improve the weak points (aka., corrosion attacked sense wires) and make their rebuilt packs even better than the original.
    I'm a fan of Re-InVolt and though he doesn't need the competition, believe the Prius community needs a second, independent, depot maintenance service on the west coast. The reason is being able to nurse a sick Prius a couple of hundred miles is exactly what is needed to maximize older Prius service life.

    Today, the Prius community from East to West has:

    • Re-InVolt, Sanford, North Carolina - NHW11/NHW20 traction battery rebuild services and some NHW20 services
    • AutoBeYours, Scottsburg Indiana - just NHW20, salvage rebuild
    • Arts Automotive, Berkeley, California - pretty much anything
    • Lucisous Garage, San Francisco, California - pretty much anything
    Given there are over 700,000 Prius and over a million hybrids of all kinds in the USA . . . and growing . . . this is a good growth market for independent shops. Mastering hybrid technology for maintenance and repairs is a sure bet.

    Bob Wilson
    3 people like this.
  2. jk450

    jk450 New Member

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    Luscious Garage has been rebuilding Gen I battery packs using Gen II modules for some time. What's more, they work on hybrids full time, and have considerable PHEV conversion experience.

    I doubt there is another HV battery rebuilder out there who can match their level of competency.
  3. hybriddriveguy

    hybriddriveguy Member

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    Just want to clarify that Re-Involt is a full service facility for anything on any hybrid vehicle.
    We service and repair all hybrids.
    Rebuild Gen12&3 battery packs.
    Design and build Gen2 Prius PHEV kits.
    We designed a soon to be released PHEV conversion for the Dodge Ram full size truck.
    We do battery upgrades on older electric vehicles.
    We are designing PHEV kits for hybrid vehicles other than the Gen2 Prius.
    We are designing lithium battery upgrades for Prius 1,2 & 3
    2 people like this.
  4. freidawg

    freidawg Prius Recycler

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    Bob,

    I guess you have been reading my mail. :)

    My name is Eric and I own Adopt A Part in Denver, Colorado.

    For about the last 18 months, we have been developing process and acquiring tools, field testing and selling our refurbished Prius batteries in the Denver market. In addition, we have been refurbishing damaged Prius cars and selling parts.

    We have an large number of modules and we are screening them, matching them and assembling them into packs. We sell these batteries with a warranty and we stand behind our work.

    Given your detailed description of what we are doing, I am delighted to respond. We are close enough to a public announcement. (still need website, brochures etc).

    Our approach has been to identify capable, independent shops and work with them to develop the expertise to service the vehicles and install batteries, inverters, transaxles etc. The first of which is Linden Engineering in Golden, Colorado.

    Let us know if we can be of assistance. We love and drive the Prius and we have batteries in stock.

    Eric Sumpter
    Adopt A Part
    1-800-508-2211
    eric@adoptapart.com

    PS: Keep an eye out. We will be putting up our website for our Hybrid Car specialty business soon.
    2 people like this.
  5. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    Hey Eric, very glad to know I have a helpful neighbor if needed only a state away.
  6. w2co

    w2co Member

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    Good to know and thanks Eric.. I'm up in Longmont, CO. and sometime soon will need a gen1 pack. I was thinking Re-Involt with their remanufactured gen1 pack using the gen2 cells. Do you have anything in that area? Thanks in advance.
  7. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web 03 and 10 Prius

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    Hi Eric,


    Welcome news!

    You might consider taking some photos of the shop and sharing. A web page can always follow. <grins>

    Bob Wilson
  8. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    Am I understanding correctly, that you sell a part and recommend a shop to install it ?

    This would make sense to me if you do not have a garage, but then I am surprised that you refurbish Prius.

    Just curious
  9. freidawg

    freidawg Prius Recycler

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    We can do (and have done) installation and service for customers but our primary business is parts and our secondary business is cars that we refurb.

    We are a salvage yard/dismantler/recycler. Different than most in that I (the owner) am an engineer and I spent many years in the Electronics Industry before I bought the business.

    Over time, we may expand our service capabilities. Our initial focus has been on developing the expertise to refurbish the batteries and other systems. (as well as attending to our established business of selling parts for other imported vehicles).

    Our success to date (in business since 1986) has been through supporting professional repair shops with quality parts and expertise as required. If we train and develop qualified installers, we will sell many more batteries/other parts and keep many more perfectly usable Prius cars on the road than if we try to do it all by ourselves.

    The ability to test and warranty engines, transmissions, differentials etc. from conventional cars is well understood and widely practiced. Hybrid cars represent a new challenge. Buying a used traction battery from a guy that says "It must be good because the car was running when it got wrecked" is a buyer beware scenario. You can't patch HV wiring with electrical tape. So better make sure that wiring harness is tested before you pay for it. Inverters and transaxles have connectors on them that can get cracked in an accident or during removal and installation. This can result in moisture intrusion and an intermittent gremlin that can drive the most savvy tech crazy. Toyota doesn't sell the connectors. Better make sure the unit has been tested for current leakage/dielectric breakdown before you buy it.

    Thanks for your interest. Feel free to give me a call at the shop if you have any other questions.

    Eric
    Adopt A Part
    800-508-2211
    www dot adoptapart dot com

    PS: Our Hybrid specialty business will be www dot hybridpartsource dot com
  10. freidawg

    freidawg Prius Recycler

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    You got it, Bob. I need to tidy up a bit first. :)

    Eric
  11. jk450

    jk450 New Member

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    Actually, moisture intrusion in connectors is usually pretty easy to diagnose for a savvy technician.



    Yes, they do.
  12. actros

    actros New Member

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    Yes yes and yes.
    Hello this is Dennis AKA Actros
    My business Linden Engineering in Golden has teamed up with Eric at Adopt a Part to bring enthusiastic economical alternatives to being beaten up on pricing at the dealer door.

    Whether you need a simple oil change or a front end collision repair we have the facilities to do the job. Using good known recon/quality take out parts and tested components with warranties are mission is to expand the service to neighboring states this year.
    We are passionate about the Hybrid and Toyotas in particular AND we are trained woith certifiaction to go on the "I Love Me Wall":).
  13. jk450

    jk450 New Member

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    Out of curiosity, where did you get your hybrid certification?
  14. actros

    actros New Member

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    Sagebrush
    Let me chime in on this one--I have often heard similar comments over the years. About 15 years ago I opened up a shop in the South Denver metro area in the back of a wrecking yard something like Eric's place. My specialization was (and still is) Landrovers. I had the expertise (tech zone rep for the company) but I didn't have the personna of the RIGHT premises. Ok I was never going to greet prospects with a white coat and a machine coffee like the "main stealer" , but attracting someone with a nice car into a wrecking yard takes some doing lets face it.

    After alot of hard work fixing anything with tracks, wheels. diesel engines and good customer following (in spite of the junk in a wrecking yard) we bought an 8 bay shop in Golden. We have been at this location for 11 years now and about 18 months ago we saw the need for Independant Prius/Hybrid service as vehicles were dropping out of dealer capture. By chance I just ran into Eric when I went lookiing for a hard to find Freelander part.
    We had what you might say was a "meeting of the minds" he has parts, he has a back lab to refurb batteries, I have the shop, the assembly expertise, the electricians, mechanics and the body shop.
    I even have a trained tow truck driver.
    Together we are finding solutions to customers problems and this year we are opening three bays/repair stalls dedicated to hybrids only.
    Dennis/Actros
    www.lindenengineering.com
    lindenengineeringinc@yahoo.com
  15. actros

    actros New Member

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    Me
    Arapahoe Community College, Littleton, Colorado,
    Arapahoe Community College in Colorado, Near Denver
    Dennis
  16. actros

    actros New Member

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  17. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    Very interesting, and *great* news for the hybrid community.

    All the best
  18. jk450

    jk450 New Member

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    How many years of experience do you have diagnosing and repairing hybrid vehicles?
  19. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web 03 and 10 Prius

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    Made me smile, Dennis,


    My first thought was "owch" as no owner likes the thought of that many Prius needing work. By having sold about 700,000 Prius over 10 years and more than a million hybrids in the USA, Toyota has been busy. Add to that the Honda and Ford contributions and the population of warranty-expired hybrids has certainly blossomed.

    What I also find encouraging are the independents and individuals who buy trade-in Prius at auction and give an honest effort to get them running again. Independent folks often working in isolation (sometimes self imposed,) they have also contributed to our knowledge. I'm thinking of Tomfreed and Organge4boy, former active posters.

    I'm looking forward to seeing more.

    Bob Wilson
  20. davestr

    davestr Junior Member

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    I just finished swapping the traction battery in my daughter's '01 with an OEM unit. Ours died very quickly and hard at 122K miles just a few days before my daughter was leaving for college (p3006/p3014), so I had no time for the turnaround via a re-builder such as re-involt.

    Have some observations:
    -Several of the popular online Toyota parts sellers said battery must ship Fedex/UPS with hazmat fees, so they were out shipping to IL. price-wise, even with a ~$1800 price tag. (wonder how the rebuilders address this shipping issue?).

    -Most local dealers in Northern IL. all wanted MSRP up to $2800 for the battery. Found only one in Madison Wi., that was willing to strike a reasonable deal, had it for me in a couple days, and I only had to drive an hour to pick it up.

    -We could surely use a Lucious/Art's/Re-involt independent type operation in the Midwest.

    -The swap took the better part of the day. I could go much faster if I did it again. Thanks to Matt Roberd's great web site with photos, coupled with the Toyota Service manual and SSC40G docs.

    -Although the SSC40G sealing fix was done to my battery at some point (lot of goop present), there was evident leakage with the old battery, and also some busbar corrosion.

    -Are the OEM replacement batteries improved at all, or do I need to do an SSC40G type sealing with the new one?

    -Haven't done any probing yet with the Fluke on the old battery to
    determine exact failure, but the P3014 probably is a clue. Probably could have swapped in some cells to buy some miles, but daughter needed car asap.

    Anyone in the midwest need some GenI battery parts and want to offer me more than the Toyota $150 bounty on the old battery?

    Dave Ewaldz
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