pretty soon the AER Prius movement will be too big for Toyota to ignore

I'm ready! If it was a question of cost, I would have gotten a pkg 1 to have this option.

(What's AER stand for Dave?)

AER = All Electric Range

coined by Dr. Andrew Frank of UC-Davis. he is one of the people most responsible for the plug in movement...he has been at it for OVER 30 years. he feels that an AER 60 mile Prius (a Prius that can go 60 miles in EV mode on a full charge) can be mass produced for about $5-6,000 over current costs.

http://www.npr.org/templates/rundowns/rundown.php?prgId=2
this page on NPR also offeres audio replay of article...check it out!!

Business
Can You Get More out of Your Hybrid?
by Martin Kaste



Martin Kaste, NPR
Ron Gremban shows off the power cord and extra batteries on his "hacked" '04 Prius, which he says gets him more than 100 mpg in city driving.


All Things Considered, February 9, 2006 · A tiny group of enthusiasts in California say they've demonstrated how to push your Prius to get as many as 99.9 miles per gallon -- if you're willing to plug it in overnight. Toyota says that although the idea is intriguing, it's not ready for prime time.


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Automakers Unveil New Hybrids at Detroit Show
Jan. 16, 2006
Cities Offer Free Parking to Hybrid Drivers
Sep. 30, 2005
Do Hybrid Cars Save Money?
Aug. 17, 2005
Reconsidering Hybrids in the Carpool Lane
June 15, 2005
Bush Urges Domestic, Alternative Energy Sources
Business
Can You Get More out of Your Hybrid?
by Martin Kaste

OK, I'll take an AER-PHEV please. It would fit our driving habits pretty well. We're ready for silent running. Er, does that make it the SR model ?

Over and over again, we keep hearing reports about electric augmentation of Prius. You know, replacing the NiMH battery-pack with a Li-Ion to provide significantly higher storage capacity for much greater electric motor use. It's wonderful hearing about that potential already built into the design, but where's the data to support the MPG claims?

Are they really expecting to convince people that this is the future we should embrace now with nothing but a short test-drive story? We need real-world numbers spanning long-term ownership experiences. That is how you generate interest... which I know extraordinarily well from feedback about my website over the past 5.5 years.

To establish the plug-in hybrid market, they must first establish a presence. It's that simple, yet they still haven't taken that next step. All we have gotten so far is just the introduction. When will on-going reports begin? The brilliant engineering in Prius wasn't a success until owners starting sharing stories about their experiences. We want to know what that rather expensive investment will actually deliver. Show me the data!!!

Nice story but the "tag" line was something like Prius gets 90 mpg. What about the 4 guys that got over 100 mpg over one day!! Wonder if we could have an impact on them. While I am in favor of plugins I also want people to change how they drive!

Good questions. The prius+ yahoo group probably has the most complete data. This is a good place to start: http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/priusplus/message/545.
Ron Gremban has logged over a year on a Prius+ now. It's moving past proof of concept and he has stopped tracking day to day, but reports an overall average of about 87 mpg this Dec. with non-optimal batteries. Now a business must be built upon the results. That is a harder and in some ways riskier process, especially if manufacturers start competing with retrofit shops in the next year or two.

I'd easily pay 5-6K extra. I'd have gotten a package one though. With my typical driving patterns I could save a ton on gas with just a AER 20mi vehicle. With a 60 I'd almost never buy gas. And now that I'm in the habit of plugging in my block heater it wouldn't be much different for me at all. Paying almost nothing in gas would be excellent. This would be a great investment for fixed income folks, if they could swing the upfront costs.

Hi John, don't worry this data will come!

Edrive have full order books for Plug-in Priuses that are to be evaluated by various fleets and government bodies around the country. They will surely be used in "real-world" day-in day-out settings and the experiences of these groups (particularly of mpgs etc) will surely filter down through the media etc to the rest of us.

The general public won't shell out $12k for the conversions but these guys will, and that's where the real data will come from. If the reports turn out to be good, then Toyota will likely be the first to market with an all-electric-range factory option.

Filtering is the problem.

Sharing of raw data is what actually sells the product, since that allows us to draw our own conclusions.

Do you really think we'll ever get to see spreadsheets of real-world usage, documenting every single fill-up over the course of several years?

This is great!

To paraphrase a post abobe:

How much longer can Toyota ignore this market? More and more people demans these cars, the technology is alradye here!

Ohh, and see the 2nd line in my signature!

As far as I'm aware, owners don't want to 'have to' keep visiting petrol stations...

:lol: :lol:

ROFL... this is so true... everyone I talk to first say 'so I have to plug it in every nitgh, what a hassle' and then when I say 'yeah, it's a 'huge' cost to pay to never have to go to a gas station again'. Several people have changed their mind after that. And after showing them the Toyota Rav IV thet are amazed that these cars are not available... so am I! Toyota? GM? FORD? are you listening?

Actually I think we will.

When the Prius and Insight first came to the US market, a couple of US government bodies (the DOE and one other one? sorry, not sure which now) bought them and performed every test you can imagine on them (including stripping them down to the cogs and performing exhaustive and frankly anal energy calculations).

But they also tested real-life mpgs over several months, many thousands of miles and made all that information publicly available on the internet.

With PHEVs currently receiving the kind of national interest they are right now, I suspect the same thing (ie a thorough independent and impartial analysis) will happen for the PHEVs rolling out of EDrives conversion workshops.

But perhaps more significantly, as Efusco has already pointed out, there WILL be some geek who will gladly hand over $12k for the ultimate Prius mod and he'll almost certainly be posting his results on a tankly (if not daily!) basis on here and on all the other hybrid forums!

So.... who's it going to be???? (Sorry, not me as don't have the cash!)

YES!

In fact, that is what helped to establish the online presence of Prius owners. Remember, I am one of founders. And many, many people have used my data as ammunition to fight off the anti-hybrid, including people working for Toyota.

And don't be silly, I never even implied that "everyone" would care. It's only the power people that will use it, like the active members of this forum.

Price is the fundamental weakness of current "battery upgrade" effort, making it unrealistic right now. Very fortunately though, older Prius can be upgraded years after purchase. So later when the prices do come down significantly, a surprising number of owners could take advantage of the opportunity... a brand new concept in the automotive industry. Never in history would such a significant improvement be embraced by so many for their used cars. And just think what that will do for resell potential!