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Observations During Trip To Glacier NP

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Main Forum' started by DoubleDAZ, Sep 12, 2014.

  1. DoubleDAZ

    DoubleDAZ Senior Member

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    Glacier National Park Trip Report

    We’re done with the sight-seeing portion of our trip and the rest is visiting relatives, etc., so I thought I’d offer my impressions of the Prius and its navigation system now instead of waiting until we get home next month. It begins with mpg data and then various observations. I used Gas Buddy to find best prices along the route and stopped earlier than I needed to because it was time for a break. I did not try to maximize mpg; I just drove like I normally do, with traffic or 2-3 mph over posted speed limits, where practical.

    Routing Points w/Mileage Data

    Peoria AZ to Tuba City AZ
    39.8 mpg (Cons 43.1) on 5.409 gals for $3.459 and 215.4 miles @ 62 mph
    To Grand Junction CO
    48.3 mpg (Cons 49.7) on 7.287 gals for $3.399 and 351.8 miles @ 66 mph
    To Rawlins WY
    41.8 mpg (Cons 43.6) on 6.476 gals for $3.539 and 270.9 miles @ 61 mph
    To Red Lodge MT
    45.4 mpg (Cons 48.6) on 7.470 gals for $3.569 and 339.5 miles @ 57 mph
    To Red Lodge MT (R/T to Yellowstone)
    54.6 mpg (Cons 56.3) on 7.599 gals for $3.569 and 415.0 miles @ 42 mph
    To Missoula MT
    48.2 mpg (Cons 50.4) on 8.436 gals for $3.549 and 406.6 miles @ 52 mph
    To Kalispell MT
    47.2 mpg (Cons 51.0) on 4.325 gals for $3.549 and 204.3 miles @ 33 mph
    To Spokane WA
    48.3 mpg (Cons 51.7) on 9.743 gals for $3.639 and 470.7 miles @ 37 mph
    To Butte MT
    39.8 mpg (Cons 41.5) on 9.533 gals for $3.509 and 379.8 miles @ 53 mph
    To Billings MT
    44.0 mpg (Cons 45.8) on 5.145 gals for $3.539 and 226.4 miles @ 70 mph
    To Dickinson ND
    40.6 mpg (Cons 43.3) on 7.919 gals for $3.499 and 321.3 miles @ 72 mph
    To West Fargo ND
    43.9 mpg (Cons 46.5) on 6.535 gals for $3.189 and 286.6 miles @ 71 mph
    To Coon Rapids MN
    48.0 mpg (Cons 50.8) on 4.678 gals for $3.179 and 224.7 miles @ 71 mph
    To Woodruff WI
    54.0 mpg (Cons 57.2) on 6.902 gals for $3.499 and 373.0 miles @ 40 mph
    Total trip miles – 4,486

    The car was pretty full; I estimate 700 lbs, including the 2 of us. It was the same stuff we took in the van. The only difference was there wasn’t room for much extra stuff that we could have gotten in the van. Although it was packed, the bags did not block the rear view because only a few things had to be stacked, but remained below the rear window level. The window is pretty small to begin with, but I’ve had no trouble seeing everyone behind me. I’m not sure what “blind spots” folks here are always talking about because I’ve had no problems at all so far, though I am pretty religious about using my mirrors. I did start to get out of the car twice at gas stations with it still in “D” because I was recording the Trip A data and forgot the darned thing was still running and I didn’t put it in Park.

    Unlike our 1999 Montana van, the Prius took us up many hills without missing a beat or even 1 mph. The coolest thing was that I didn’t have to apply the brakes once coming down the hills into Cordes Junction AZ or Camp Verde AZ on I-17 north of Phoenix and the Prius stuck to the cruise speed setting, not gaining any speed coming down those hills. This has never been the case with the van. Other hills in MT and WY had steeper grades, so that wasn’t always the case, but the regen braking system worked beautifully and I can see why Prius brakes last over 100,000 miles, though I must admit the last set of brakes on the van had quite a few miles on them too.

    When it comes to navigation, it was a mixed bag. I had a Garmin Nuvi set to the same routing just in case the Prius navigation system screwed up so badly that I couldn’t trust it. Not surprising to me, the Prius performed quite well. Believe it or not, but west of Grand Junction, the Garmin Nuvi wanted me to get off the freeway and then get right back on. I have no idea why, but I heard that complaint before, it had just never happened to me until this trip. Conversely, the Prius took me right where I needed to go. To be sure, there were differences of opinion between the 2, but none that I would call a mistake and I’ll mention some later. My observations (and that’s all they are) are in no particular order, so here goes.

    The Nuvi gives a heads-up at the 0.9 mile mark, whereas the Prius gives one at 2 mile and 0.5 mile marks. They both give further instructions as you near a turn, but the Prius offers a final notice closer to the actual turn.

    The Nuvi displays distance to next turn. The Prius displays that as well as distance to destination, something I like. The Nuvi will display that too, but you have to press buttons to get there and back.

    The Nuvi displays the road/street for next turn and includes the Exit number, if applicable. The Prius does this, but you have to display the list of instructions to see the next one in line. Not really a big deal because both tell you what exit, etc., when they announce the next instruction and the Prius shows it after the 0.5 mile mark.

    For the most part, the Nuvi and Prius agreed on routes, but never agreed on the estimated mileage or estimated time of arrival until closer to arrival and sometimes stopped way short, like for a lake cottage in Northern Wisconsin. I did follow the Prius directions exclusively, but I used the Nuvi to find a few things and then used Voice Commands to get them into the Prius. I only had to stop a couple of times to find POIs with the Prius.

    The biggest problem with the Prius is that I haven’t figured out how to make it display POIs “along the route” once we’re moving. I know there’s a setting when I’m stopped, but when I say “find next [POI]”, the list includes those I’ve already passed and I’d like to see only the ones ahead of me. It also doesn’t show location, so you have to press the Info icon to see if it’s coming up or if it’s already past. It does show distance, but the Nuvi includes city.

    I did get familiar with some Voice Commands, but not as much as I’d like and I found I can do a lot of things by touch if I first hit the Voice Command button. Most options then get displayed and I can go from there for some things. The biggest problem here is that it will only search for Major Brand POIs while I’m moving. If I stop, it will then find local POIs. An example of this is Granny’s Restaurant in Cody WY. It would not come up as a POI unless I was stopped. When I’d say “Find Granny’s Restaurant”, it would offer some off the wall options and at first I thought it just didn’t understand me, but then I found it was just trying to find something close from the items in the database. I didn’t not try stopping and use the Voice Command, I just found it was actually in the database, just not a Brand Name, so not found while moving. Not sure why Toyota would do things that way.

    I also found I need to rethink how I name things when I save them. Contacts are displayed Last Name/First Name, but saved POIs are displayed in plain alpha sequence. So, I need to try naming things differently, like “Lodging-Rifle CO-Comfort Inn” to make them easier to find. I just saved my lodging by their names, but then couldn’t remember where we were staying to search for them. Because I made the reservations a month ago, I didn’t remember we were staying at the Comfort Inn in Rifle CO much less if it was under “C” or “R” or something else. Conversely, the Nuvi displays things by distance from current location, so what I’m looking for as I drive shows up in sequence along the route and is a breeze to select the next motel, etc., from the list.

    The Prius won’t let me delete saved items while the car is moving, so I have to remember to delete things later. Not a big deal, just different than what I’m used to with the Nuvi.

    The car has been great, much nicer to drive than the van, and I liked the van. The power seat was just fine, though I did adjust it about as often as I adjusted the one in the van. I did see what some were talking about when I adjusted it to where the manual seat might have been and I can see how some would be uncomfortable with the front part of the seat being too high pressing on the underside of the thighs. I can also see how folks who like to stretch their legs might have a problem with how far the steering wheel doesn’t adjust.

    SiriusXM was a real joy and will be a keeper for us. Getting to switch from 50s to 60’s, new country, old country, Fox News, Fox Business, Blue Collar Radio, etc., whenever the mood struck us was really enjoyable compared to scanning for stations and settling or turning on the iPod. We did lose the signal a few times because of the massive mountains or trees, but not long enough to bother us.

    It was interesting to watch the CONS mpg go up and down with the terrain. We didn’t lose the hills until well after Bismarck ND, so mpg was all over the place.

    The Nuvi and Prius didn’t always agree on routes. The Nuvi took us on a shortcut in WY that was pretty curvy, etc., so I can see why the Prius avoided it. However, it shaved a half-hour off the day and was a really pretty drive. I think this only happened twice, maybe 3 times, and I can’t remember the others.

    The Beartooth Highway was the whole reason for going through Yellowstone and it was everything I expected and more. Gas mileage was lousy at first because we climbed to almost 11,000’, but evened out on the backside as we neared the north end of Yellowstone. I thought 48.2 for that leg was pretty good.
    I didn’t abuse the car, but I didn’t slack either. I ran slower when there might be something to see and then near speed limits elsewhere. I am so pleased with the car and how it handled curves and hills. To be sure, we can hear the engine when climbing and the regen braking when descending, but I’ve hardly had to use the brakes at all. When I wanted to slow down quickly, I just shifted into “B” and let the Prius do the job for me. I had no problems at all climbing some pretty serious grades and I let cruise control do most of the work. We didn’t use the A/C much until after we were done with Glacier because high temps were under 70. I even used the seat heater because it was pretty chilly at times.

    I have to say too that the quietness definitely helped when we were among elk, buffalo and antelope in Yellowstone and the National Bison Range. And when I say among, I mean it. We had a buffalo walk right alongside the car, I could have touched it, and it was taller than the Prius. I’ve never had antelope come up to a car before, but they came pretty close too before they sprinted off.

    All in all, we are quite pleased with the Prius and have no regrets buying it to replace our van. We have no complaints about the seats, cup-holders, console or location of seat heater controls. We found that we could set our phones in the pocket on the door armrest after closing the door and then not forget it when opening the door to get out. My wife loves the dual glove box setup and we didn’t use the sun-visor extensions I made. We do want to get some of the plastic flip-down visor extensions because the visors were often too small to do any good for my wife who is fairly short.

    We had the seats down for luggage, etc., but I think I’m going to leave them up and cover them for the trip home to see if I can just set stuff on them and the floor. With the seats down, the flip-down headrests kept us from using all the floor space, so I want to see how leaving them up will work. This might also let us use the rear cup-holders because we never have a place to put both water and soda/coffee cups. We had room for 6 cups in the van, 4 in the console and 2 in the door pockets, so we got pretty used to that.
     
    #1 DoubleDAZ, Sep 12, 2014
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2014
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  2. ftl

    ftl Explicator

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    Great report, Dave! Glad to hear your trip is going so well.
     
  3. retired4999

    retired4999 Prius driver since 2005

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    Nice trip! And trip notes!(y)
    Beartooth hwy is really nice!:)
    Took that on my last trip to Yellowstone.
    Enjoy your stay in wi.:D Have a safe trip on your way home.
     
  4. DoubleDAZ

    DoubleDAZ Senior Member

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    Thanks. I was a little concerned about the size difference, but except for a few minor adjustments, we don't miss the van at all. We had plenty of space for the stuff we normally take on trips and there was space left over if we ever need to haul more. We are going to look for new suitcases though that will use the rear cargo area a little better and allow us to use the tonneau cover. I had 4 suitcases back there, but they were taller than the 12" cover. I'd also like to fashion some small boxes or netting/pockets for the "cubby holes" on the sides in the back. I put some small items there after I put the suitcases in, but then they fell out when I took the suitcases out. I'd also like to find a way to use the storage bin under the cargo floor for more things, but I don't want to have to empty the bay to get at them. We put a few items there that we didn't need until we got here, but there was a lot of empty space. Rather than a suitcase with extra clothes, maybe I could use a couple of soft-sided backpack-like bags than would fit down there. Oh well, just a few things to think about before our next trip in February. :)
     
  5. DoubleDAZ

    DoubleDAZ Senior Member

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    Thanks. I couldn't get over the clear mountain lakes and streams throughout the Beartooth drive. I love photos with reflections and was able to get quite a few. It was over 20 years since our last visit to Yellowstone and we couldn't get over how much it's changed. Small trees and clear areas are now all grown up.
     
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  6. Robert Holt

    Robert Holt Senior Member

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    DoubleDAZ, you are just killing me here with this trip description! PLEASE post some pictures of the wildlife and scenery!
    I will look up this Beartooth drive you mentioned and put it on our "to do" list.
    Nice description of what sounds like a very nice trip.
    (just curious--were you two camping at any point along that route? If so, how did that go?)
     
  7. DoubleDAZ

    DoubleDAZ Senior Member

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    Hi Robert,

    No, no camping. I can't get my wife to give up her showers and especially the bathroom. Her meds make her get up at night and she has no desire to deal with the weather, etc., in campgrounds late at night. That's why I always ask about lodging availability going to Alaska. :)

    All my photos can be viewed on FlickR. The Beartooth in Hwy 212 going west out of Red Lodge MT, that's why we stayed in Red Lodge rather than Cody, etc.
     
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  8. retired4999

    retired4999 Prius driver since 2005

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    DoubleDaz, Nice photos! Great job! You had a very nice trip.(y)
    You had a very nice time! I can tell.:D

    Glacier National Park and the surrounding area is one of my favorite trips.:)
     
  9. DoubleDAZ

    DoubleDAZ Senior Member

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    Didn't go through Eau Claire this time, but we did use Hwy 8 to go from East Bethel to Woodruff.
     
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  10. NuttyKat

    NuttyKat Member

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    Wonderful pics!! You have a good eye. Glacier has been on my bucket list for a long time as well as Yellowstone. This makes me want to jump into the Drag Queen and hit the road, especially after reading how well your car did on the trip.
     
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  11. DoubleDAZ

    DoubleDAZ Senior Member

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    If you do go to Glacier, make sure you go to Many Glacier too. You have to go outside the park on the east side and re-enter further north, but it was worth the drive. In fact, if I ever go back and stay in the park, I will try my best to stay at the Many Glacier Lodge, there are tons of trails there and it's the only lodge directly on a lake. We were in Yellowstone 20+ years ago and the trees have certainly gotten bigger. We felt that hindered access to wildlife, except buffalo, compared to back then, but we were only there for a day this trip. It's still a great place to visit, especially since we drove the Beartooth this time and I highly recommend doing that, especially if you enter from the east and go west into North Yellowstone.
     
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  12. Robert Holt

    Robert Holt Senior Member

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    Those are GREAT pics! Eminently framable.
    What camera did you use?
    How close were you with that head-on portrait shot of the buffalo? I usually stay at least 10-20 feet away although I personally have had good luck around wild buffalo. But my wife and mother-in-law were chased across a field and over fence by an unhappy bull buffalo. They were Germans and didn't understand that the Wichita Mountains Wildlife Refuge buffalo were NOT tame and NOT in a zoo cage. It got tense helping them over the fence before the bull got to them (got stuck on the barbed wire, which is also not used in Germany), but we all laughed about it afterwards.
    Anyway, thanks for the link to your pics.
    Ps: my DW agrees with your DW about camping, so it's a give-and-take thing with us.
     
  13. DoubleDAZ

    DoubleDAZ Senior Member

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    I use an older Olympus E-510 body with primarily 2 lenses; a 14-42 mm F3.5-5.6 that came with the body for wide shots and a newer 50-200 mm F2.8-3.5 that I purchased a couple of years ago for everything else, it's the one that stays on the body. FWIW, these lenses are equivalent to 28-84 and 100-400 in 35 mm film terms. There might also be some photos in there from my Motorola Razr HD cellphone. :)

    I was sitting in the car and probably 20' for the head-on buffalo shot. However, I've stood within 5' of them laying on the ground, though not during rutting season. :) Some buffalo, and even antelope, were right next to the car, but I had the long lens on that can't focus that close and I didn't have time to switch to the other lens. I keep saying I'm going to buy a 2nd body, but just can't seem to make up my mind.

    Your wife and MIL were quite lucky and I'm glad things turned out okay. I had never heard of that wildlife refuge near Lawton OK and it looks like a nice place to visit, so I've added it to my list. Since I'm retired military, we can stay fairly close by at Altus AFB and we're always looking for things to do near military installations.

    My DW would camp if I really wanted to, but I'm okay with motels or cottages/cabins. She can only hike trails classified as Easy or Easy-Moderate and neither of us likes mosquitos, etc., so we're content visiting parks and forests on day trips. We also don't like to stay in one place for more than 2-3 days, so setting up/tearing down campsites just doesn't make too much sense for us. I still haven't given up on a motorhome, but even I admit they aren't very cost effective for our type of travels.
     
  14. Robert Holt

    Robert Holt Senior Member

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    Nice camera---they kind of looked like SLR pics. Good composition also.

    But 5 feet in front of a buffalo LYING DOWN?? Hello! What could go wrong?
    Although our native Americans stalked them like that wearing buffalo robes, I don't have one of those handy so I'd far rather keep my options open by being able to run and, in honor of my simian ancestors like my uncle, preferably be near a tree to climb if things go South.

    The wildlife refuge adjoined Fort Sill (Army artillery and missiles) where I was stationed a while back, so hope it is still there--do watch out for rattlers if your clamber about. Rainy Mountain is nearby, holy place of the Kiowa tribe, and I recall a nice museum about the local tribes in Anadarko, OK, IIRC.
    Cheers!
     
  15. DoubleDAZ

    DoubleDAZ Senior Member

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    Thanks, I do try on the composition. :)

    I didn't intend to get that close to the buffalo, but the others were quite a bit further off in the field. I had just walked across the road to avoid dealing with passing cars when taking photos and thought I was walking past a large boulder. It turned out to be a buffalo, but he didn't even flinch, much less try to get up, etc. Needless to say I moved away slowly without incident and was more careful during future stops. ;)

    The refuge is still there and I saw that Ft Sill was closer than Altus, but being retired Air Force, you know....... :) We'll be going that way on I-40 next May, so I might add a stop to the trip.
     
  16. priusincc

    priusincc Member

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    Great detailed report. It so happened we were in Glacier in August. Put about 4000 miles on Prius from Northern Nevada to Glacier and Yellowstone; average for trip was about 53 mpg (indicated). (Wanted to get to Glacier before they all melted.:cool:) The car ran great; only cons were windshield rock chip in MT, and construction delays and mud on eastern section of Going-to-the-Sun Road. Gas was cheaper in MT.
     
  17. DoubleDAZ

    DoubleDAZ Senior Member

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    Thanks. I meant to include prices, so I just went back and added them to my post. We had mud too and I didn't know if it included salt, etc., so I washed it off that night when we got back to the motel.
     
  18. DoubleDAZ

    DoubleDAZ Senior Member

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    Our road trip has come to an end. My wife did the laundry while I went to fill up the fuel tank to close out that part of the trip. After breakfast I vacuumed the car and then started to work on removing all the bugs in the front. I had intended to just do the front and then wash the rest of the car tomorrow, but it went so smoothly that I went ahead and washed it today. I did find a few minor (pinhole size) dings from road debris on the lower front crossbar, but nothing close to what I was expecting. The clear cover material on the hood, bumper and mirrors worked really well and made me a believer. Anyway, here are some final stats you may find interesting:
    Days on the road - 37
    Miles driven – 7,341.5
    Gallons of fuel used – 160.016
    Cost of fuel – $538.17
    Average miles per gallon – 45.9
    Lowest mpg – 37.4 (Amarillo TX to Moriarty NM)
    Highest mpg – 54.7 (Red Lodge MT to Cody WY to Yellowstone WY and back)
    Lowest cost per gallon – $2.999 (Moriarty NM)
    Highest cost per gallon – $3.569 (Red Lodge MT)
    Minimum savings in fuel cost – $492.39
    Cost of lodging – $838.04 (3 nights were free with Wyndham rewards points)
    Number of motels – 9

    The savings in fuel costs assumes our previous van would have averaged 24 mpg. However, given the terrain and winds we had to deal with, I think it would have been closer to 20-22 mpg. So, the savings could be as much as $700, but I’m more than satisfied with the $500. I again used Gas Buddy and stopped at the same stations I would have had we been driving the van. Once again Gas Buddy saved us anywhere from $0.06 to over $0.20 per gallon assuming I would have filled up at the 450 mile mark like I did in the past.

    I was very surprised at how much of the trip was uphill. I knew we’d rise between Phoenix and the Glacier area, but I didn’t expect to keep rising after we left Glacier until well past Bismarck ND and then again on the way home between Amarillo TX and Moriarty NM. I had been warned too that crosswinds were really hard on gas mileage, so I wasn’t caught by surprise as I watched the computed mpg drop below 40 during some especially long stretches. Between the uphill battle and crosswinds we got under 40 mpg 3 different times; 37.4 and 39.8 twice. Still, given the totality of the trip, I can’t complain about the 45.9 mpg average. I'm sure a lot of you could have done better, but I don't know that you could have done so and still got where we did in the same timeframes, etc.

    The car ran great, had no problems with any terrain and was more comfortable (and more quiet) than the van, even on a 3.5 hr non-stop stretch. No, we weren't in a hurry or anything, just didn't feel like stopping. We especially enjoyed the SiriusXM satellite radio and I just renewed my subscription for a year. I made a note to call them next October to try to get a new “deal” if I don’t get an email offer before then. After a few days getting used to it, we found Phlash Phelps on 60’s On 6 in the morning, The Highway on 56 in the afternoon for country tunes and some Blue Collar Radio to throw in occasionally for a laugh or two. For those in the Phoenix area, Phlash Phelps sounds just like Bill Gardner who used to be on KOOL-FM. He just sold a car with 350,000 miles on it to the Smithsonian because of where all it’s been driven and it’s completely original. He also has a 2012 with over 200,000 miles, but I didn't catch the models.

    Anyway, I had absolutely no visibility problems, no difficulty with the cup holder locations and plenty of cargo space. My only complaint is how difficult it is to use the navigation on the fly. Toyota is way too conservative on what it allows one to do while the car is moving. I did get comfortable with voice commands, but eventually gave up because it couldn't find things I was looking for even though it would find them if I stopped. Fortunately I had my Garmin Nuvi sitting near the small side window and I used it to look for things and then used the Prius to get me to them. Some times I had to stop to enter a destination, but I'm sure I'll do better on the next trip. I don't know exactly how to explain it, but the Prius would have gotten me everywhere I "needed" to go, it's just that the Nuvi is an essential accessory for my kind of travel and made things a lot easier.

    I made a few extensions for the visors and never used them. I'm glad we bought the rubber floor mats because the carpet mats would have been a disaster given how dirty the rubber ones got. I did forget the engine was running twice and started to get out. The hidden cargo bay came in handy to protect a few things we bought. The hatchback design proved invaluable when stopping at motels and shopping. I missed getting the tires rotated at 5,000 miles, but that's okay with me. If I continue to log mpg, etc., I need to come up with a better method for recording data when I stop for fuel, but the bottom line is the Prius exceeded all my expectations.
     
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  19. Dave14Prius

    Dave14Prius Member

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    Thanks for the write-up. How do you feel the Going-To-The -Sun road in Glacier compares to Beartooth pass?
     
  20. DoubleDAZ

    DoubleDAZ Senior Member

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    That is a tough one because I approached both with very different expectations. For me, Going-To-The-Sun (GTTS) was simply a way to get through Glacier NP and I didn't think much about the road itself, whereas I specifically chose to drive the Beartooth for the experience. Glacier is a "destination" and roads are generally just scenic byways.

    Would I drive the Beartooth again? Probably not, simply because it is out of the way and I doubt I'll make another trip to Yellowstone. Was I glad I drove it? Absolutely! The photo ops provided by the mountain streams and lakes made it all worthwhile for me. As a road, it wasn't really all that different from other high mountain roads I've driven, like Independence Pass and Pike's Peak in Colorado, but they all have their own personalities and different scenery elements. So, if you are going to Yellowstone, I would highly recommend taking Beartooth into or out of the park at least once. For all practical purposes, the Beartooth is part of Yellowstone and requires paying the park entrance fee. However, you can make a nice 3-hr roundtrip loop from Red Lodge MT via hwys 212, 296, 172/20 and 308 (or 310 to/from Billings). To me, it would be worth doing the loop if you had the time and were traveling I-90 through Billings, but didn't have enough time to visit Yellowstone. My initial plan was to do just that from Billings "after" Glacier, but then we decided to stay in Red Lodge and drive through North Yellowstone on the way "to" Glacier instead.

    Will I drive the GTTS again? Yes, because I have friends in the area. I'd also like to spend more time in Glacier NP and still want to make the drive up to Banff and over to Vancouver. The GTTS had a lot more of everything, especially rivers, waterfalls and overlooks. The lakes were bigger though and not near as photogenic as the small high mountain lakes along the Beartooth. GTTS had a lot more traffic too, but that can't be helped given its short tourist season.

    Basically, I wouldn't go back to either though if I didn't have friends to visit near Glacier. Even though we've already been to all 50 states, we still have things around the country we'd like to see before we start visiting favorite places a 2nd time. Our goal is to visit as much of the country as possible, so if we get no 2nd visits, we'll be okay with that. Yellowstone was an anomaly because we missed Beartooth the 1st time. The Grand Canyon is another anomaly because visitors want to see it, so we oblige them. :)
     
    Robert Holt likes this.