Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by subjective, Jun 17, 2012.
LOL. Refresh your memory.
Probably best to refresh yours. Here's the person who asked.
The whack-a-mole series continues --
It is the weight (mass, really) of the total vehicle that matters, not the weight of one portion of the power plant. The latter sets an upper limit, but is not the final answer.
Not only have nominal battery watt-hour capacities not been a factor in the increased MPG of subsequent Prius generations -- as mentioned earlier, the capacity shrank from GenI to GenII, holding steady for GenIII -- but the watt-hour/kg ratios have not increased either. They also shrank:
Gen I (41 mpg): 1778 wh / 1254 kg = 1.42 wh/kg
Gen II (46 mpg): 1310 wh / 1325 kg = 0.99 wh/kg
Gen III (50 mpg): 1310 wh / 1380 kg = 0.95 wh/kg
If you really want battery power, not energy, then sorry, I don't have an answer at this instant.
That Volvo web site shows me some V60 Plug-In Hybrid promo materials. But when I go to the V60 Specifications and Style Your V60 portions, the Plug-In Hybrid is conspicuously absent.
Maybe Volvo's web server doesn't like me as well as it likes you. Or maybe they are only taking orders through another channel because it isn't really being sold and delivered yet. Recent links, from last month instead of last year, are suggesting first delivery in December.
Tom pointed his comment in exactly the right direction.
Power to weight is important, but that is for the whole car. The battery in a prius doesn't take a large percentage of its weight or power. It does add efficiency The gen III battery supplies 2KW more power than the gen II, toyota thought they did a better job with cooling it. The prius phv has the best power to weight, and energy to weight by far of any of the prii batteries. It does have worse power to weight and energy to weight of the whole car.
The v60 phev isn't available for sale until the end of the year, and that is only in some european countries. Some specifications are still subject to change.
Toyota shows different numbers and shows the Prius III battery having the highest power to weight ratio, 1310W/kg.
Diesel hybrid is there. You need to use Sweden as your country of origin to see it.
You are confusing battery weight vs. total vehicle weight.
No those are just the battery system weights per Toyota per that website. As you see the Prius III, the most advanced battery weight the least 1040 kg. You mistakenly listed it at 1380 kg.
You had expressed an interest in power capacities and the Prius III battery has the highest power rating of 1310 W/kg.
Funny how some Prius fans feel threatened by the Volvo Diesel V60. There seems to be a bias against Diesels.
The Toyota chart is using the battery weight;
Fuzzy used the weight of the car.
btw, if you use the chart to calc max battery power output you see that max power output has actually dropped a bit from the 2000 Prius to the 2010 Prius, even though the later gen car is quite a bit heavier. This should tell you something about how important max battery power is to fuel economy. NOT
1040 is GRAMS/MODULE
1380 is Weight of the car in Kg.
Honestly dude, you are hopeless.
Max energy went down but the power to weight ratio goes up as mileage goes up as battery weight goes down. Toyota might be on to something there.
Ah...sorry the chart confused you. It was the Power someone asked about. 1310 W/kg that was the key. You'll notice that the module weight went down though number of modules did not Gen III to Gen IV as the mileage went up. Also notice how it is the power to weight ratio that keeps climbing as mileage of the vehicle climbs.
Re-read your own posting. It shows a battery module weight, not system weight, of 1040 g, not kg. The battery system is made up of multiple modules.
I don't know why you thought that the battery system weighed over a ton -- 1040kg.
That was no mistake. I listed vehicle weight, not battery weight.
You are confusing energy capacity (my interest) with power capacity and specific power. The 2000-2003 series (GenI by U.S. convention, GenII by Japanese convention) has the highest energy capacity.
Thanks for this post, it really helps illustrate how you misread technical materials. Now I just need to figure out how much of that was accidental, and how much was intentional wanking.
Correct. Grams per module but then you have to do the math of 26 modules. Since the number of modules stayed the same (26) but the weight per module went down (1045 to 1040) the weight of the battery went down and the power per kg went up from 1300W/kg to 1310W/kg.
Since the W/kg seems important to Toyota, they raise the number with each advancement in battery design and since the MPG of the vehicles goes up at the same time, there does seem to be a relationship between the power to weight ratio of the battery and the mpg.
The speculation was that one of the reasons for the stated hybrid mpg rating of 117 mpg for the Volvo V60 Diesel/Hybrid/EV was due to large capacity of the battery since it was large enough for substantial pure EV use.
We see something similar with the Prius Plug In vs the regular Prius where even though the Prius Plug in is 100+ lbs heavier 3165 to 3042 due to the higher capacity battery it has a slightly better pure hybrid mileage rating 51/49/50 vs. 51/48/50 than the regular Prius.
^^ You are still missing the obvious. The w/kg for the CAR went down.
W/kg is only applicable to the battery since the tires, door handles, etc. are not power storage devices.
The point about the Volvo batteries being responsible, in part, for the 117 mpg is that the increased efficiency would not seem capable of producing such a big jump in the mpg numbers.
Don't know how you figured that . . . but here are some things I found online. . .
Frequently Asked Questions
Found this online. might help . . .
Cost Management Solutions LLC - Home of the Propane Price Insider
CommodiMy cost is between $1.00-$1.20 using my "Phill" home refueling pump by "FuelMaker" and slightly less than $2.00 filling at a distribution vendor, i.e. local utility, PG&E. Running a CNG vehicle is also less polluting than a gas fueled hybrid. IMHO, there are more +'s than -'s with CNG.
The battery is in a car. It is providing power to push the car down the road. The car has mass.
Not very convenient for me. Even if I paid the $5,000 to have one installed, I don't have any natural gas where I am. So much for 'more available than electricity.'
Do you have a reference for that claim?
Your link wasn't very helpful. It doesn't list the energy content of various fuels.
I just looked up the energy content per gallon of CNG, divided into the energy content per gallon of gasoline, and multiplied by what you say a gallon of CNG is costing you. [It does seem high, Did you intend to say 'gallon of gas equivalent'?]
I couldn't find the pressure the your home station produces, any idea what it might be? Also, their website seems to be defunct, are they still in business?
I note that it takes overnight to refuel at your home station. And that it requires a lot of electricity to do so. You should include that in your calculations of price.
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