Yesterday, when I was getting my haircut, I brought up the subject of gasoline prices to the lady that was cutting my hair. She is about 35, very pretty, into fashion, and has kids. When I started talking about why oil prices were going up and down, the fact that hybrids are the future, and eventually electric vehicles, she all of a sudden became very confused and said ... "This is stupid. Why don't they just lower the prices back down to where they have always been." I later learned that she didn't even know what a "hybrid" was - she thought it was just a special edition model. She had no idea. Now, aside from being a hair stylist, this lady is VERY MUCH your average "soccer mom." I have been getting my hair cut by her for over 5 years now, and we have had many very thoughtful, very intelligent conversations. She is by no means an "air head." But she had no idea what was going on in the energy world. I wouldn't expect someone in her "profile" would know much about the stock market and oil markets, and especially not about "speculative trading," oil supplies and demand, and the NYME (New York Mercantile Exchange), but I would have at least expected her to know what a hybrid was, even if she didn't understand the technology. Nope. She snubbed it off, and just wanted "the good 'ol days" of cars being fashion, and if you drove a car with a big engine, you were "cool."

>his wife still needs her Suburban for carpooling to school and school events.

i found that quote from the article interesting. folks still believe they NEED a suv.
many of my students' parents are the same way - i NEED a big **!@# tank to drive little buffy to her music lesson (to school, to soccer, etc). I need a tank to go to the grocery, etc, might want to buy the entire store, so i need that hummer.

we still need a mindset change in this country that hasn't happened yet. 2,3 $ more per gallon and maybe it will.

As I have stated many times before in the past, as a shareholder of many oil stocks, I thank the SUV drivers.

Except that oil imports are our biggest source of the trade imbalance, threatening the value of our dollar and our economy, and that terrorists get their money (indirectly) from oil, and that oil most probably exacerbates global warming (a big problem for anybody with kids), and that our economy and way of life is dependent on countries that don't like us.

As I've said before, wasting gas is terribly unpatriotic.

And really Hummers don't carry that much. Working at a plant sale for our nonprofit, I helped load trees & bushes into people's vehicles. One person had a small single-cab pickup that we loaded up with several trees. Another person had a full-size Hummer H1. Turns out in the base model, the back window doesn't open, and these trees were longer than the trunk area. She bought two trees, along with some smaller plants, but had to angle the trees so the branches were draped over the driver/passenger. So in reality, the Hummer H1 had less cargo area than a small pickup, and gets probably 1/2 the mpg and probably 3x the price of the pickup. But it looks macho! (Not good, just macho).

A lot of people are still convinced the SUV is safer, despite the higher center of gravity. As I've said before, when my brother-in-law worked in an auto body shop he always knew that the day after a snow storm, the shop would be packed with SUVs, not sedans.

As for looking like a soccer mom, I once had a friend who had kids and refused to buy a station wagon because "people will look at me and think 'her life is over.'" Seriously, those were her exact words. I wanted to reply that if she really felt that being a mother = your life is over, she needed counseling stat. My parents have led pretty full lives with/in spite their five children, and we spent many miles driving around in a big ol' Chevy station wagon.

I would have answered, "You know, I was just thinking about the same thing with haircuts. I mean the hair didn't change, the cutter is the same, what gives?"

I'm sure after that, she'll wise up.

ZC1

Maybe something genetic about 'skipping a generation" --

When I grew up in the late 50's & '60's our family car had to be an Olds 98.

A generation later I'm in a Prius, my sister's in an Echo, & my brother's in a Matrix. And my parents, still driving eek are in a Camry.

Why all the Toyotas? Just good karma ... or sushi.

SUV = big on the outside not so big on the inside, seems only $$$ will get people to admit it & the economy must suffer through it

Um ... yes, she *is* an airhead. Which is fine with me, means I never have to PAY for "it." I should PM you my phone number to pass along to this broad

Seriously, the vast majority of the consumming public are lemming-like, with no concept whatsoever of how things work. And why should they know or care how things work?

Thanks to the Boob Tube, a failed public education system, and gadgets so easy to use they all but turn themselves on for you, we have the result of what a prof once told me:

"Never before in human history have so many understood so little, about so much of our technology"

How many of us really have to *work* to get by? Hard to believe that +80 years ago, the majority of the population here was involved in food production, living a quaint rural existence. Running water? That's when it rains, go use the s***house

Now we have folks involved in retail, in the Service Industry. Very few of us are engineers who actually are involved - in very intimate detail - with how things get built, or how they work.

Consider my long thread on oil refineries. An engineer could spend his entire professional career just on a desalter, or tray reflux/pumparounds. That's the level of complexity involved.

Yet the average person, they stick a credit card in the pump, the pump magically turns on if the card authorizes (That process is also very complicated!), they stick the nozzle in the hole in the side of the car, and gas up

Once you start dragging out very complicated and tricky geopolitical realities, their eyes become glazed. However, I commend you for trying

Man, So much hate.

Not only it's a need it's also a personal want. We live in a free country of which you have the freedom to drive a new technological hybrid or you drive a truck. The choice is up to you. You want to save money on gas then drive a hybrid as it's only best thing is fuel economy.

People always say Trucks and SUV's are not safe. But in true reality they are safe. Which would you rather be in when a collision happens? A Prius or a Ford F350 truck?

How about your in a Semi hauling 50,000 lbs of goods and you get into an accident witha Ford F350. Which would you rather be in?

The only time a much larger vehicle becomes unsafe is when the driver pushes that vehicle beyond its limits. It happens with cars too.

I've driven an S-10 with a 5" BDS lift kit and 33" tires and I have never rolled my truck. granted it's taller than stock but adding offset wheels makes it more stable.

My truck is my daily driver. By weekends I'm out on the trails in the truck.

We've been over this before Jimmie, it is not a "personal" choice anymore. The choices of these individuals effects all of us economically, national security wise, and our long term health. So no, they do not have that right.

So, Your idea is to have a dictatorship led country? No human rights and ect?

Wait, I meant to say Totalitarianism

hey jimmie good points but most people don't realize a heaver vehicle (F350) has a greater stopping distance and when it comes to fixed objects the additional weight is a disadvantage, mention a lift kit, approach & departure angles etc and you get the deer in the headlight look

Jimmie

Well, I think I covered the safety angle of pickups/SUV's. I entirely agree this is a free country, and that we should let market forces decide things for us

What do you think of some Conspiracy Theory nuts claiming the gas prices are a scheme? If I didn't know better, I'd think they were demanding the Socializing of oil companies like Hugo Chavez has done, spreading the record profits out among the proletariat workers?

I for one am completely against any meddling with the fuel market. First of all, thanks to my growing retirement portfolio, I’m really cleaning up thanks to the price of oil. No way in hell I ever want to see oil under $20 a barrel

A lot of folks think the “American way†of life will just cease to exist if fuel hits $5 a gallon and higher. Well, fuel is higher than that in most EU countries, if folks are willing to pay the extra insurance, fuel, and taxes they are free to buy whatever they desire.

For example, you can buy a large Escalade SUV in Switzerland

Cadillac Europe


I think they made an error with that photo, the steering wheel is clearly on the “wrong†side for Swiss roads. You can also purchase a Hummer in Switzerland

HUMMER

There is no need to legislate higher fuel economy standards, or “force†carmakers to not sell trucks as your “don’t take my truck†site purported. High fuel prices will naturally cause consumers to DEMAND smaller, more fuel efficient vehicles

Even GM is claiming that large vehicles are essentially “deadâ€

General Motors, Others Decide the SUV is Dead - U.S. News Rankings and Reviews

jay

While everyone on the forum can laugh at the hair stylist, the actual mechanisms of oil prices, international trade mechanisms, and environmental interconnections certainly elude some of the posters here as well.

(PS-I am not exempt from this criticism)

Point by point

1) The article had no hate toward SUV drivers, in fact it was trying to find out why some people refuse to give them up. BTW, I'm teasing, I realize you are refering to the responders.

2) Few things in this world are "needs". Food, shelter, and clothing are needs. SUV's aren't "needs", they are a convenience, as is running water, electricity, and I Love Lucy reruns.

3) Personal want. Good. Just realize that most of the "hate" you see on this site regarding SUV's is a common way of thinking that people feel that they "need" an SUV instead of "want" an SUV. With wants come responsibilities. I personally find it distasteful when people complain about something and they have full control to change it. Instead they complain because it is easier than actually "acting" and "changing" their behavior to minimize the problem. None of the people in the article complained about gas prices, nor should they.......they have made their own situations. And now they will deal with the consequences of their choices. This is a good thing, for everyone.

4) Hybrids also pollute significantly less, and contribute less ambient noise when in operation (compared to a non hybrid vehicle). It is a small way to minimize human contributions to CO2 in the atmosphere. Frankly, I can't wait to get my Prius. A 4 door car that can comfortably seat 4 adults AND gets 50+ mpg! My dream car! My former car (1988 CRX HF) could only seat 2 people but did get 50+ mpg.

5) I don't believe any poster in this thread implied trucks or SUV's aren't safe in a collision. Rollovers in SUV's are an issue. They have a higher center of gravity, yet perform and ride like a car. People get complacent and forget that they aren't driving a car. This puts them at risk for rolling their vehicle (like my neighbor's wife did in a previous neighborhood and my elderly uncle did in the City).

6) Collisions. Mass is your friend. However most people are in the mindset to avoid them. Buying a car because you want to be safe in a collision is a poor choice for most people (the same people in the mindset of avoiding accidents...that is). However, if you try to "avoid" an accident by swerving away from the vehicle trying to involve you in it, your higher center of gravity is working against you.....see rollovers....

7) Again if you ARE going to be in a collision, likely the car with mass (all other things being equal) will come out better. Don't forget that many cars come with side impact bars, air bags galore, crumple zones, and other niceties to protect us in the case of an accident. So mass isn't the only variable.

8 - The only time a much larger vehicle becomes unsafe is when the driver pushes that vehicle beyond its limits. It happens with cars too. That isn't the "only" time. Impaired/distracted driving is one that comes to mind. But I agree, any vehicle, be it bicycles, motorcycles, cars, trucks, etc is unsafe if pushed beyond the vehicle and the driver's limits (whichever comes first).

9) You clearly do not push your S-10 beyond your or its limits. That is good!

10) I'm glad you aren't complaining about high fuel prices. You are showing that you are willing to live with the consequences of your decisions. Although, in the long run, you would save money by getting a "beater" car as a commuter vehicle and saving your truck for your offroading fun. But if that doesn't float your boat....so be it. Of course, with the money you save you could go out and buy a boat......

It may be a free country, but when it comes to my selection of Electric Vehicles, the government has not served me very well.

Portions of the article really highlight how we have gotten to where we are at. Not wanting a more fuel-efficient vehicle just because of what other people are going to say about us and using a Suburban for a 145-roundtrip commute.

That is where cheap gas/oil has gotten us. I suspect that only a few people will continue to maintain that they need large SUVs. It's not suprising thought that a significant number continue to fight against all of the news and even GM, it is a classic example of cognitive dissonance. They have had SUVs for so long aend spent so much money on them that they try to convince themselves they still need it.

Part of me feels bad for those that want to get rid of their SUV, but resale values have really gone into the crapper. Then again, part of me doesn't feel bad for their not wanting to see the signs.