1. Offline

    john1701a Prius Guru

    Member Since:
    Jan 6, 2004
    Posts:
    7,649
    Likes Received:
    1,840
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Your Vehicle Year:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Advanced
    Here's my first with the PHV...


    Just Drive It




    This was my very first drive with the ScanGauge connected to the 2012 Prius PHV. I attached it to my filming rig with a camera, then covered them all with a box to block out all the external light. That meant I couldn't see any data until watching the video capture afterward. So, I was able to "just drive it" without any influence.

    The first thing I noticed afterward was the age and generic nature of that aftermarket gauge was inaccurate reporting of travel speed. Darn! It looks like the gauge is under-reporting by 3 MPH. Oh well, maybe there will be a new version available later for owners like me. That data isn't needed for my driving anyway, especially since I have a HUD (Heads Up Display).

    The next observation was engine RPM. It's accurate, but slow to refresh and reports when the engine motion has come to a halt... not when fuel is actually cut. Fortunately, the PHV model has an EV indicator, informing you exactly when that fuel consumption has ended rather than waiting for the fuel-less engine to stop spinning. MPG an unknown. Since I couldn't see the gauge while I was driving, I'll have to wait for future drives on the 70 mph highway for comparison. FWT (coolant temperature) is priceless in an fashion. You could clearly observe how I entered the highway with the system still cold, how long it took to warm up, and how long that warmth was retained once returning to EV driving.

    For me, I especially like seeing the low RPM and high MPG while traveling at high speeds. The values themselves are revisions to the system since the early model PHV. That one drained the battery-pack faster, not taking advantage of the engine as much as this one does. This results in an overall higher efficiency and provides more opportunity for EV later. Remember, while in HV mode, the EV range will rise due to the engine running and regen opportunities.
    .
    21 people like this.
  2. Offline

    Piprius Member of the cult of Prius

    Member Since:
    Oct 25, 2011
    Posts:
    72
    Likes Received:
    7
    Location:
    MD
    Your Vehicle Year:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Advanced
    Thanks for the video John.

    What was the outside temp, 60?

    Also I don't think I am ready for high speed driving videos. I just about slammed my foot through the floor watching you come up on that stoplight at a subjective 80 mph. Ha!
  3. Offline

    Sabby Member

    Member Since:
    Sep 17, 2011
    Posts:
    226
    Likes Received:
    74
    Location:
    NY
    Your Vehicle Year:
    2011 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    Nice view of the Pip in action. It seems like you have much more ability to glide at higher speeds. Do you find you have more capability than your 2010 Prius? I don't mean distance - I mean motive power to hold the glide before the engine fires??
  4. Offline

    john1701a Prius Guru

    Member Since:
    Jan 6, 2004
    Posts:
    7,649
    Likes Received:
    1,840
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Your Vehicle Year:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Advanced
    It was 50°F.


    I have no idea. The "just drive it" motto defines my approach well. It seems to fit PHV well too, since the system so easily automatically switches into EV mode.

    .
  5. Offline

    john1701a Prius Guru

    Member Since:
    Jan 6, 2004
    Posts:
    7,649
    Likes Received:
    1,840
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Your Vehicle Year:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Advanced
    I'm looking forward to filming the drive I did several times throughout last year, those routes to the coffeeshop and back.

    Today was my first opportunity to try with a full battery-pack. I took the suburb route. Total distance is 15.6 miles. Since firing up the engine was inevitable with a capacity of 13.1 available, I did it intentionally.

    First time was by pushing the Power button for the first time ever. It was along a route with a speed limit of just 40 mph. That meant very little need for the engine. My interest was how much EV range would be added from the HV driving and at what temperature the engine would shut off at.

    Range was about 0.4 miles. It was hard to tell though, since some was consumed by a hill and accelerating from a stop. Plus, there was some gain from regen too. It was a similar situation on the way back.

    Coolant threshold appeared to be 132°F, though that was hard to tell with the value rising so quickly. On the return trip, it looked like the same temperature for the engine shutting off.

    213 MPG was the final average from the entire drive.
    .
    2 people like this.
  6. Offline

    Biking Maniac Junior Member

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 2011
    Posts:
    46
    Likes Received:
    12
    Location:
    Menomonie Wisconsin
    Your Vehicle Year:
    2001 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    This is great information - thank you. Question: Does anyone in Minnesota drive the speed limit? I noticed you seemed to pass no one, but lots of people passing you. I stick to the speed limit for safety and environmental reasons, but wonder if others will mock us as in the Simpsons episode "Hi, I am the electric car, I can't go very fast or very far!"
  7. Offline

    ukr2 Active Member

    Member Since:
    Feb 5, 2007
    Posts:
    874
    Likes Received:
    155
    Location:
    Victor, NY
    Your Vehicle Year:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    John,

    How do you keep the camera so steady?
    Take a photo of your setup.
  8. Offline

    john1701a Prius Guru

    Member Since:
    Jan 6, 2004
    Posts:
    7,649
    Likes Received:
    1,840
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Your Vehicle Year:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Advanced
    It's a GoPro in the window, a tiny wearable light-weight waterproof HD video camera that can also take photos automatically. The triple suction-cup rig keeps it very steady.

    [IMG]

    [IMG]

    [IMG]

    .
    1 people like this.
  9. Offline

    john1701a Prius Guru

    Member Since:
    Jan 6, 2004
    Posts:
    7,649
    Likes Received:
    1,840
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Your Vehicle Year:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Advanced
    Seeing only the front view without either side or the back can give uncertain & misleading impressions.

    On Friday with light traffic like that, you get the large bunch of us that all sticking to the limit (the Prius speedometer said I was going 70/71 not matching the 68 on the aftermarket gauge) and others zip past mostly in the far left. Sadly though, a few use the far right to pass everyone.

    Personally, I don't have any desire to weave through traffic. It's more rewarding to just enjoy the ride.
    .
  10. Offline

    andi1111 Member

    Member Since:
    Jan 13, 2012
    Posts:
    270
    Likes Received:
    63
    Location:
    EU
    Your Vehicle Year:
    2012 Chevy Volt
    Model:
    N/A
    This may be because (at least with my demo PiP) the actual speed is a lot lower than what the speedometer.
    I had a Samsung Galaxy Note mounted, which has very accurate navigation, since it uses GPS and Russain Glonass satelites and when I was driving 108km/h by the speedometer, the actual speed was 100km/h.
    8% is a bit too much in my book.
  11. Offline

    ddunlea New Member

    Member Since:
    Nov 13, 2011
    Posts:
    22
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Columbus, OH
    Your Vehicle Year:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    John, do you run the tires at the sticker psi or higher? In our 2004, a few extra PSI made a big difference in MPG.

    Thanks.
  12. Offline

    john1701a Prius Guru

    Member Since:
    Jan 6, 2004
    Posts:
    7,649
    Likes Received:
    1,840
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Your Vehicle Year:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Advanced
    Coincidentally, the factory tires for PHV are what I switched to with my 2010... Goodyear Assurance Fuel-Max. That makes comparisons way closer than I imagined.

    I bumped PSI up to the same as what I've been driving with for years... 44 front, 42 rear.
    .
  13. Offline

    pfile Member

    Member Since:
    Dec 28, 2005
    Posts:
    319
    Likes Received:
    34
    Location:
    bay area, ca
    Your Vehicle Year:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    by the way, did you need any firmware updates for the scangauge to work with the PIP?
  14. Offline

    ukr2 Active Member

    Member Since:
    Feb 5, 2007
    Posts:
    874
    Likes Received:
    155
    Location:
    Victor, NY
    Your Vehicle Year:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    John,

    Do cops wonder what you're doing with that setup?

    Thanks for your videos.
  15. Offline

    john1701a Prius Guru

    Member Since:
    Jan 6, 2004
    Posts:
    7,649
    Likes Received:
    1,840
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Your Vehicle Year:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Advanced
    No updates, it's the same old gauge I bought for the 2004 Prius.


    It's just another suction-cup on the windshield, as countless others have. Of course, mine is far off in the passenger area. Being inaccessible to the driver... quite unlike a navigation device ...makes it pretty much a non-issue.
    .
  16. Offline

    john1701a Prius Guru

    Member Since:
    Jan 6, 2004
    Posts:
    7,649
    Likes Received:
    1,840
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Your Vehicle Year:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Advanced
    Here's the first of my PHV videos including dashboard info:

    First Eco-Meter





    First-time setup for Eco-Meter filming with the PHV was quite a challenge. I encountered a variety of new problems, like not knowing where the HUD (Heads Up Display) light-sensor was until after laying out all the new glare-mats. Getting the camera mount to stay stuck to the dashboard didn't go so well either. As a result, I forgot to dim the display itself to prevent over-exposure... which means extra edit work later to tone down the excessive glow. The new higher-quality screen with a faster refresh rate left me clueless about what to expect. Then there was the frustration of using up some of the battery-capacity while setting up... which means less available for the drive itself. There's wasn't much I could do to prevent that though. The weather wasn't exactly cooperating either. Sitting there in the car, I was getting bombed by the tree dropping new spring buds onto the windshield, leaving trails of pollen behind... which I didn't remember to wipe off afterward.

    When I finally started the drive, being hot & tired, I forgot that turning on the outside vent would result in a lower EV capacity value being displayed on the Eco-Meter. Ugh! It automatically assumes a loss from climate-control usage, revising the estimate shown to a lower value. So when I got to the halfway point, I turned it off (note the 0.7-mile increase). Fortunately, there was still plenty remaining to not have confused that information sharing. Despite the hills, traffic, and not starting with a "full" battery, the drive still resulted in 13.0 miles straight of EV travel. That was nice to capture on video. What was odd was the traffic incident at the intersection shortly following the engine start. Watch for the yellow sports car, then the reaction by the police car.

    Overall, it was an enjoyable experience. It was a casual Summer drive on a beautiful windy day through the suburb to the coffeeshop and back. With a top speed-limit of 45 mph, it's the slowest by most scenic route. Notice the bike-trail on the side; I ride that with the bicycle from time to time. Watching the Eco-Meter, you'll that most of the there's plenty of EV power available. You'll also see the capacity go up a times from hills and regenerative braking. When the engine finally starts near the end, you'll see MPG plummet. That's a strange sensation watch it drop from 999 MPG. You'd feel disappointed if it wasn't for the absolutely outstanding result for that 15.7-mile drive. 282 MPG is incredible!

    .
    15 people like this.
  17. Offline

    essaunders Member

    Member Since:
    May 29, 2007
    Posts:
    183
    Likes Received:
    16
    Location:
    NH
    Your Vehicle Year:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    282 mpg is the PiP reported value. What's the complete energy consumption? Is the 2kWh on the display the drive electricity? If we assume 1.2*2kWH (80% efficient charging) combined with the 282MPG gas we get a total of 124MPGe

    did I get this right?
  18. Offline

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

    Member Since:
    Sep 22, 2004
    Posts:
    12,621
    Likes Received:
    2,244
    Location:
    Queens, NY
    Your Vehicle Year:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    Thanks, John. It was very enjoyable to watch. 13 miles on battery goes very far. I can make a lot of short trips with that here in NY.
  19. Offline

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Member Since:
    May 11, 2005
    Posts:
    17,521
    Likes Received:
    2,763
    Location:
    boston
    Your Vehicle Year:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    that was sweet! thank you john. looks pretty flat in your part of the country? my home is 140' asl and my business is 90. yet, i always thought i was going uphill on the way to work. in fact, i lose mpg's on the way and get them back on return. but that's proly because the engine is stone cold when i leave the house.
  20. Online

    SageBrush Senior Member

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2008
    Posts:
    8,555
    Likes Received:
    1,621
    Location:
    New Mexico
    Your Vehicle Year:
    2012 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Two
    John said
    Thanks for the video, it answered a question that has been on my mind for a while: how likely is the battery power output component in HV mode to drop the ICE power output into an inefficient range ? The answer seems to pretty often, based on the extended driving in 1000 - 1300 rpm.

    For best efficiency, it appears you want to either:
    Drive in EV below 62 mph,
    Drive uphill in HV,
    Accelerate in HV, or
    Drive > 70 mph ;)

Share This Page