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Pinouts, please

Discussion in 'Generation 1 Prius Discussion' started by robert mencl, Aug 11, 2014.

  1. robert mencl

    robert mencl Member

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    1) I want to add 2 leds to my panel, a green one to indicate closed loop and a red one to indicate ICE on.
    led.jpg
    I want quick visual indications on when I am leaned out, and want to see ICE status without toggling away from the consumption screen. Any advice on where to tie in, and would the added load throw off the ECU?

    2) My actual fuel consumption is about 1 1/2 mpg worse than indicated. I see many other people here say the same. If consumption is based on injector pulse width, I wonder why there would be any deviation here, and would it make sense to lean the fuel trim until fuel burn equals consumption. Tires are new and standard size, CAT temps and 02 sensor pulses are good.

    Thanks, Robert
     

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  2. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Could we talk you into getting a Prius-aware scanner like a Scanguage or the Android one?

    The Scangauge, XGAUGE function gives you access to up 30 Prius specific metrics displaying four values at a time. You'll have actual engineering metrics and XGAUGE definitions can be changed out for others.

    If you still want to use a LED solution, engine running is easy enough but closed loop is a little more challenging. I suppose a linear amplifier trimmed to swing the O{2} sensor voltage to LED range might work.

    Just a thought, have you considered picking up the schematics book, used on Ebay? You might also consider Volume 1, diagnostics and Volume 2 repair. These make an excellent library for current and future projects.

    Bob Wilson
     
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  3. robert mencl

    robert mencl Member

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    Hi Bob, well I did get the mini VSI, and Vol 1 and 2, but I want a simple way to see when the loop is performing that I can use while driving, and to help me keep the ICE off in stealth...
    Where do I tie in for engine running signal?
    For the closed loop I'm guessing the ECU is looking at sto. and coolant temp before it decides, and it must output that decision to select the mode...R.
     
    #3 robert mencl, Aug 11, 2014
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  4. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Engine running can probably be LED monitored by tapping any of the following engine ECU signals:
    • injector pulse - use pull-up resistor as the signal goes low, pp DI-68.
    • igniter pulse - pp DI-120
    The engine ECU is located to the right of the glove box so finding and tapping one of these signals should be fairly easy and with a current limiting resistor, work without impacting performance. Volume 1 has a lot of details about the signals and where to tap. The schematic manual includes the color codes and is a little easier to read.

    The engine ECU handles closed loop operation by adjusting the fuel trim based upon the O{2} sensor value changes. But these are small voltages, 0.40-0.55 range, and loading the shielded circuits is neither trivial nor wise as we don't know how much current they flow. Worse, the voltage swing is not in normal LED lighting range.

    So I would build a small circuit board with a linear regulator, linear amplifier, and trimmer pot to adjust the output range for the LED. The linear regulator provides a constant voltage source for the linear amplifier. The linear amplifier provides high-Z to minimize loading the signal. The trimmer pot adjusts the output to make the LED light work. Then comes the fun part, tapping the shielded, O{2} sensor wire so you can see the signal swings showing the fuel trim is working.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #4 bwilson4web, Aug 11, 2014
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2014
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  5. robert mencl

    robert mencl Member

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    OK Bob, you've got me chewing on my pencil here....amplifier circuit, I hadn't considered that not much runs on a half a volt..... will try a LED on the regulated power supply at .5vdc and see what it looks like..the shielded wire is unshielded in the terminal connector and I can tap there...
    ICE indicator, I spoze a hole in the muffler would work too! I've got to look at what else gets energized when ICE is on...TPS has around 5v.....
    Thanks, Robert
     
  6. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    There are multiple circuits that can monitor the O{2} sensor voltage but it is important they do not inject a load that would reduce the O{2} range or noise.

    Another option would be a Zener to provides both power and a known reference voltage. Then feed the O{2} signal into a comparator which in turn drives the LED. One IC, Zener, some current limiting resistors, and a trim pot used as voltage divider and the problem is solved.

    The biggest problem with an ON/OFF engine sensor is it does not give the engine RPM. There engine RPM ranges that are desirable and others to be avoided:
    • <1,000 rpm - key to entering hybrid mode (i.e., Stage 4) where the engine will shutoff at any speed. Before entering this mode, even at speeds up to 32 mph, the engine will continue to run even if not needed.
    • <2,400 rpm - very fuel efficient range supports reasonable acceleration and 90% of urban traffic demands.
    • 2,400->3,900 rpm - increasing fuel consumption per unit of power, tolerable but avoid if possible.
    • >3,900 rpm - the engine begins using fuel enrichment to reduce exhaust gas temperature and avoid burning out the catalytic converter.
    Bob Wilson
     
  7. depriusoto

    depriusoto Member

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    Seems to me I remember that way-back-when (2002) the guy at CoastelTech sold an LED setup that mounted on the dashboard somewhere. I don't remember what the lights showed, maybe regenerative braking, maybe engine to 0 RPM. Probably not what the OP is looking for but might offer some ideas.
    Ed
     
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  8. depriusoto

    depriusoto Member

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  9. robert mencl

    robert mencl Member

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    Thanks DesotoPrius, found the Coastal site and I will email them. They no longer list it, but if they can't sell it I will bug then for a wiring diagram. I want "training wheels" for hybrid, so I can see when the engine is off, and when I am in closed loop, so I can train my right foot.
     
  10. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    So, I have a ScanGauge II that's plugged in all the time and sits on top of my steering column. It can show four things at a time. Right now, the four I have selected are aux battery voltage, traction battery state of charge, loop open/closed, and long-term fuel trim. Change one of those to RPM or engine load and you've kind of got what you want, right?

    Seems to me the easiest way to find out if the ECM is in closed-loop control mode is to ask it, using OBD-II, and it'll tell you. Otherwise you'd have to be snooping several of its inputs and outputs and analyzing them to see whether it seems to be varying the outputs the way you expect in response to the inputs. That sounds like more of a project than plugging in a ScanGauge to get the answer and display it.

    It turns out the answer doesn't seem to be all that exciting ... it's in closed loop within seconds of every warm start, maybe more like a dozen seconds of a first cold one....

    -Chap
     
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  11. robert mencl

    robert mencl Member

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    Thanks Chap, you just saved me the trouble of closed loop light. If it reliably goes in within seconds, I don't need to monitor that anyway.
    Scangauge on the dash would be fun, but I get into trouble with too much info when I really need just a little. I still use an analog watch for the same reason, I quickly see and interpret the visual pattern, not the exact digital number.
    So I'm just down to engine -on indicator, and I have emailed coastal tech on that as suggested by contributor Depriusoto. Theirs shows engine on, and regen-which I can hear anyway.
    If the Prius developed a hole in the muffler like the Saturn did this week, I wouldn't need an engine-on idiot light!