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Place to buy 10KWh of cells, California buyer ?

Discussion in 'Prius PHEV Plug-In Modifications' started by lesdit, May 9, 2011.

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  1. lesdit

    lesdit New Member

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    I've decided to start with a PHEV 'entry level' setup that is more home brew than off the shelf kit.
    So I need about 80 cells, if anyone can point me to a place that can deliver to California and has good prices, please let me know.
    I'm leaning towards CALB or GBS cells, 40Ah.

    The spoofing of the ICE can wait, I'll start with the SOC spoof via orion BMS to get me started.

    Thanks!
  2. banshee08

    banshee08 Member

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    lesdit,

    Be careful with purchasing batteries. I have read and heard of horror stories of swindlers especially on the web. My firend purchased quite a bit of batteries from Manzanita Micro for his EV conversion. Their prices are not the best but not bad either. $54 + shipping for 40AH of CALB is not bad.
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  3. lesdit

    lesdit New Member

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    Thanks, I want to shop with a dealer from here, with a few 'feedbacks'.
    The DIY electric car forum has some activity, as well as some of the yahoo groups.
    I'm happy to see there is now a choice too.
  4. seilerts

    seilerts Battery Curmudgeon

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    Chinese Lithium batteries carry extremely low profit margin for US retailers. Be extremely suspicious of any price less than $1 per amp-hour for individual cells. One advantage of Manzanita is that they have been around for a long time and also sell other components that you may/will need, such as BMS and charger, so there exists a possibility of getting a quote for a discount if buying everything at once. Plus, if you buy from a California-based company, won't you have to pay sales tax?
  5. banshee08

    banshee08 Member

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    One point to remember is that the Manzanita is a great charger.. I personally would use the Manzanita charger if I were to convert to a "Charge Dump" type of PHEV. But yes Manzanita has been in the DIY EV conversion industry for quite a while and well respected. Please keep us updated on your project. I have exactly 80 cells of motocell I purchased from Enginer so I would be very interested in this conversion.
  6. lesdit

    lesdit New Member

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    Yes, an out of CA sale would be preferred, who wants to pay close to $500 in tax.

    The orion bms site has a sub functional shopping cart system, I guess I'll have to place an order with a telephone or something.
  7. lesdit

    lesdit New Member

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    Ok, the other issue on selecting a battery for my phev is the max discharge and charge currents the cell can take. Many of the cells say the optimum charge is 0.5 C , well, that's only 20 amps.
    What are the cells for the kits out there now, are they limiting charge current during regen?
  8. Flaninacupboard

    Flaninacupboard Senior Member

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    The good ones do. the battery ECU sets a CCL (Current Charge Limit) and CDL (Current Discharge Limit). If you are replacing/spoofing the battery ECU messages you would set the CCL appropriately. If you brake over the CCL then you will engage friction brakes to make up the difference.

    I suspect that a 0.5C charge rated cell could accept more than this during a transient regen event, but don't have any data to back that up. If you look at A123 there is some sportsbike manufacturer that is now allowed to sell their 20Ah pouch cells, and they have something like 5-6C limits. More expensive, but could be worth it.
  9. lesdit

    lesdit New Member

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    I wonder why the Phev kit makers are not using the a123 20ah cells. I know they are very good. Perhaps they have not figured out an easy way to package and connect them ( no screw terminals ) . I did get a price of $45 / cell , that would be $7200 for the 10KWh size.
    I'm using the Orion BMS, which manages the CCL , SOC, etc.
  10. Flaninacupboard

    Flaninacupboard Senior Member

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    A123 have not previously made the pouch cells available. My opinion is that they are working closely with a major automaker and that automaker didn't want that particular product out on the street. some cells have leaked out here and there through some odd backdoor type deals, but if they're now properly commecially available maybe we will see the kits switch to them. the current Enginer setup uses 20ah pouch cells manufactured by Realforce. The battery assembly is not great, but does work - other kit makers are not ignoring the A123 cells for packaging reasons.
  11. lesdit

    lesdit New Member

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    I'm going the a123 route

    I am going with a123 20ah pouch cells. For now, I am planning on using 80 cells in series, for a 5KWH range system. I have a 12 mile commute and will be able to charge at work and home. I don't want to carry too much weight around, so this smaller capacity may be just right for me.
  12. Flaninacupboard

    Flaninacupboard Senior Member

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    Not sure if 80S may put you slightly too high in terms of voltage. Have you spoken to pEEf about his installation?
  13. lesdit

    lesdit New Member

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    I've posted questions in threads he was chatting in, and never got a response. Haven't PM'ed him yet, I'm afraid I'll have too many bothersome questions, like asking about the nature of the can frames going to the engine ECU. That's the secret that this open forum does not want to discus. Yet.

    What rest voltage is recommended ?
    The number actually to look at would be what the expected pack voltage would be under 100 amps charge. Since these cells are very stiff, they shouldn't sag or rise much.
    Another question: What's the highest V you have seen under regen? I've seen 275 Volts so far on my stock car.



  14. Flaninacupboard

    Flaninacupboard Senior Member

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    I haven't seen higher than 260V during regen, but i haven't specifically tried to get higher.
    Bear in mind if you charge to 100% and start the car immediately, with an 80s pack you'll see 288V.
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  15. prius21

    prius21 New Member

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    Hi guys,

    I have 2001 prius abd I want to I want to convert it to be plug in and I want to use the whole space in the trunk for that and I want to know what Is the best conversion for my car ?

    Please if you can also leave me a message in my mailbox so I can read it there if I forget to come here later


    Thank
  16. NortTexSalv04Prius

    NortTexSalv04Prius Active Member

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    Did you find anybody.
    I think you can use CALBpower somewhere in Cali or
    Lithuim Storage in Utah
  17. Mr-plugin

    Mr-plugin Member

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  18. NortTexSalv04Prius

    NortTexSalv04Prius Active Member

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    CALBpowerhttp://www.calibpower.com/About.aspx
    GBShttp://www.elitepowersolutions.com/
    also scan ebay ,ev tradin post
  19. NortTexSalv04Prius

    NortTexSalv04Prius Active Member

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    Have you ever cracked open the realforce 24vdc 80ah lifepo4 battery box?
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