<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Eric Nothman @ Jun 22 2007, 04:22 AM) [snapback]466248[/snapback]</div>

Yeah, well, until the price tag for converting a Prius in to a plug-in drops significantly, I'm not going to be doing that any time soon. Hybrids Plus wants $24,000 to give you 15 miles of pure EV range and $32,000 for 30 miles. Too rich for my blood. I could buy a second new Prius for that.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Eric Nothman @ Jun 22 2007, 04:22 AM) [snapback]466248[/snapback]</div>

That's 68% relative to the average US car. The first 52 percentage points come from driving a Prius, and the rest comes from converting the Prius to PHEV. Looks like the PHEV conversion reduced the Prius' C02 and fuel cost about about a third.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(chogan @ Jun 22 2007, 11:31 AM) [snapback]466335[/snapback]</div>

It depends on the driver. Their normal Prius fleet gets 40 mpg, the PHEV fleet gets 75 mpg.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(clett @ Jun 22 2007, 11:41 AM) [snapback]466338[/snapback]</div>

Yeah, that's right -- the 75 mpg is gas only, by "fuel" I meant combined gas/electric cost and emissions. If you add in either the estimated carbon from the electric or the estimated cost, the PHEV works out to get about 60 mpg-equivalent -- same cost or carbon as a gas-only car getting 60 mpg. Or you can just look at their total carbon numbers -- they put all the data underlying their calculations on the website, including total tons of C02 and so on.

CalCars reported more favorable numbers -- last I knew they claimed 85 mpg-equivalent combined gas-electric (I think the "equivalent" is based on total cost of "fuel"), and (barely) 100 mpg in gas alone. If their stock Prius would have gotten EPA 46 overall, then they'd have gotten about a 45% carbon or cost reduction. I suspect CalCars drives their PHEV closer to the optimum for a PHEV.

That said, those are phenomenal improvements -- there's no other off-the-shelf technology (other than pure EV) that can produce those sorts of gains.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Eric Nothman @ Jun 22 2007, 04:22 AM) [snapback]466248[/snapback]</div>

I love the idea of a plug in but the V2G has so many problems its hard to figure out if it would be worth it.
Selling power back to the utility will wear out your battery. Will the utility make it worth it for you for battery wear and also the idea of not having a full electric range when you need it?

One way to help the power company is when you have a lot full of electric cars charging and they could charge in less time then you know they will sit you could have the charger only charge when there is the cheapest or greenest power available.

Thank you google for putting money into plug ins. They will push the development of them a faster.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hampdenwireless @ Jun 23 2007, 12:36 AM) [snapback]466744[/snapback]</div>

Unless you've got an Altair Li-titanate battery with 20,000 cycles to play with!

Net-metering is key.
On peak power is worth 4 times off peak.
Clean non polluting power also worth much more.

In Germany solar electric gets paid 8 times what they charge you. Thta would be a very good reason to plug in and sell back as well as chanrge off peak.
Plug-in hybrid owners that off set gas already get about 3x , 80 cents in electric vs $3 for gas to go the same distance. off peak chaging would be 40 cents vs $3 a gal gas. As gas goes balistic next year to $8 a gallon it will be a profit center to plug in !

Hmm that Tesla at $92K is looking better all the time.