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Plug-in-Supply conversion instructions/experience

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Accessories & Modifications' started by SteveWlf, Apr 18, 2013.

  1. SteveWlf

    SteveWlf Old-on-Hold

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2012
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    Location:
    Montesano, WA
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    II
    You will note that I list "instruction" before "experience". (the Plug-in-Supply "experience(s)" aready being well commented on this forum and else where)
    I have finally recieved my first shippment of the DIY components and am now 'suffering' through the "hodge-plodge" of instructions on the PIS website. The majority, if not all, of these instructions are photos with a light sprinkling of comments from other DIYers that have contributed to the PIS site. They appear to be over a lengthy period of time as the PIS conversion system has evolved.

    I think I just about have this install pretty much figured out and since I already know that Robb, at PIS, has a low tolerance for "dumb questions", I want to reserve quota of "dumb questions" for later true problems.

    So I am hoping that there is someone out there that has recently done the DIY Gen2 conversion and will recognize the components and connection that I question and can't fined explained in the PIS DIY instructions.

    For now, as I stated, I have only recieved the first portion of my install, that being the front controller w/OBD2 cable, data cables, TEV wires and a third pair of wires that come from the back push button switch. This last wire isn't labled at all and appears to be wire in parallel with the control box wiring of this push button switch. I'm kinda thinking it might go to a second push button switch on the dash.

    Then I still can't figure where PIS intends that front control box be mounted. It has Velcro patches on the back with a rocker switch and push button on the side. Looking at the length of the preassembled TEV wire, this box would have to be near the middle of the dash/lower trim panel or on the side of center console. So what is the normal place for this??

    Since I haven't recieved the rear controller yet, I will reserve further questions until I see the connection confusion there. I could do the traction battery tie in with the contactor assembly I have recieved, but would still have to wait for the Rear controller since the Ready wire originates there and I would have to open the end portion of the Traction battery again.

    Since I am providing my own battery and charger from other vendors, I have already studied this process/precedures at length and am leaving PIS out of that. Just getting the BMS boards and HV inter connection cables from them. Building my own boxes and mounting hardware.

    Looking forward to hearing from others. I will share my experience as I go along.

    Steve
     
  2. NortTexSalv04Prius

    NortTexSalv04Prius Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2009
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    Location:
    Texas
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    any updates I like your thread
     
  3. SteveWlf

    SteveWlf Old-on-Hold

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2012
    262
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    Location:
    Montesano, WA
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    II
    Doing OK now that I have received the bulk of the PIS DIY in the last few days. Only lacking the individual BMS boards and Robb has them on hand and has yet to invoice me before shipping them.

    I just about finished the vehicle controls and wiring today. I have been taking my time since each installment of parts come without much in the way of instructions and I must sort through those pictures/comments in the DIY section. Eventually I ended up laying things out on the floor, only to discover that some revisions have evolved over time. As it turns out, I manage to make some sense of things and move forward until I am only left with a couple wires that I'm unsure of. These answers may become apparent with the arrival of the battery charger in a couple days.

    I should mention that I ordered the Elcon PFC 1500 charger directly from Electric Conversions and the batteries from Calib both US sources and "from stock on hand". The batteries are due to be shipped the end of this week directly to me. ($195 freight)

    I will be making my own battery boxes and interconnections cables, as well as the battery preliminary charging and balancing. That will take me a few weeks since I only have one small charger and I will do them first in four parallel packs, before switching the cells around to four series packs of 19 cell each. Final top balancing will be in the final installation with the new charger and BMS loop installed.

    I haven't found the springs for the suspension upgrade yet but ask Robb if he has any on hand or the spec/description info so I can try a local shop here. Not a big deal since it will take me the rest of the month to check out what I have.

    As usual I have neglected to take any pictures since I work alone and figure things out as I go.

    BTW, I should report that while I had the OEM traction battery opened up for the connection for the HV cables to the new contactor, I took the time to take individual cell voltage readings. Before disconnecting anything, I started the car to the Ready state and noted the SOC and was about 80% (8 bars on the MFD). The cells were very close in voltage of 8.12 with a couple at 8.11 volts. Total series voltage was 225 volts. Battery pack seems to be original and the terminals are all clean without corrosion.

    I will post my progress more frequently now that I have some confidence in PIS and as I figure out the DIY questions.

    Steve
     
    NortTexSalv04Prius likes this.
  4. SteveWlf

    SteveWlf Old-on-Hold

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2012
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    Location:
    Montesano, WA
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    II
    Ok, I'm back to report that I have completed my DIY Plug-in Supply installation. There were some delays in delivery over the past 3 month. However, Robb and I did manage to establish a reasonable working relationship. I believe the secret there lay in an understanding of his preference to discuss complex matters by phone and if I asks a question in and email, don't complicate it with a lot of unrelated details. Also, I promised myself and told Robb that I would reserve any critical comments until the end of the project, in all fairness. And I think I have done that.

    I completed the installation over this last weekend and when ever I emailed a progress or question to PIS, Robb would respond or often invite me to call (anytime).

    I am still waiting for one replacement cell for a bad one from Calib and I understand that is being shipped. (having nothing to do with PIS.) On Robb's recommendation I jumpered the bad cell and cell board and have been operating on 75 cells without any problem. (I will save my special 6 awg jumper for future use.)

    There was one slight disappointment, however, maybe for the best:
    PIS has been advertising an additional ECM board for higher current draw for highway speed to 70mph, to use with the 10 kwh battery pack.
    It seems the higher current draw was too hard on the 40AH cells.
    Robb, informed me that he has discontinued selling that board until they can find a cell that can handle that high discharge rate. (I think, someone on here predicted this.)

    As it turns out, my normal operating Mode is what PIS call "Enhanced Mode", with Electric drive being primary source, engine is warmed up and spinning in standby or assisting on moderate demand. Up around 45 mph the engine seems to assume more load share with the battery assisting. Then, over 60 it feels more like the OEM hybrid mode. In the 50s mph, I can still get 99.9 on a level "glide", no head wind. I have actually done up to 62 in a constant "glide", in all electric indication. However, I might have had a tail wind.

    I don't have a full idea of the range but have done about 40 miles between charges and the EV "long shreeeeek" warning hasn't come on. Charging at my Level 2 station at home (240vac) draws about 5.5 amps for about 3-4 hour to fully charge again. Since the Elcon 1500 charger is automatic, that amperage should taper off towards the end of the charge and I'm not monitoring at that point. So it is still pretty cheap to recharge this pack at WA electric rates of $.0812.

    I am now looking for a reason to travel outside my normal area to check the range and check out the charging station network along the Interstate 5 corridor between Olympia WA and Seattle or Portland Or.

    Also I can't give you better mileage yet because I have had my battery ground disconnected several times through the finally checkout process and lost trip mileage from system memory. However, right now I am showing 97 mpg on 171 miles since the power loss reset the distance traveled and the gas gauge hasn't moved.

    More later.

    Steve
     
  5. Prius Downunder

    Prius Downunder Junior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2012
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    Location:
    Adelaide, South Australia
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    II
    Hi Steve,

    I am in Australia and I have now received all the "boxes" for the Gen 2 Plug-in Supply 10kWh add on.
    Of course half of the instruction photos are wrong for the Australian Prius, but I am beginning to get across what has to be done.

    That third pair of wires that comes from the push button switch for "engine disable" (on my front box) connects to the the other set of contacts on the switch! I will probably rewire this in parallel with the correct wiring on the switch to extend the switch to the dash.

    In Australia we already have an EV switch on the dash, so I have found the H14 plug on the left of the dash after the glove box has been removed. It looks like I just connect to the black wire going to Pin27 and the other wire to chassis. This makes for a very simple (front) installation, (other that the OBD2 connection).

    I have ordered Winston 40Ah cells and will be making my own battery box/frame.

    What do you think of relying on the BMS low voltage sense to turn the PIS system off? Do you think that is taking the cells a bit low?

    The rear contactor box now has been upgraded to have 2 contactors in it. Did you get this one?

    I am going to try to take photos as I go along, this will then assist any other Aussies who want to attempt this project.

    I have found Robb at PIS very helpful. He was a bit slow at times to get the bits sent over here, but I think is is a very busy man.

    I have a website and will update that as I progress: google search for: evplus.

    Eric.
     
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  6. kye04

    kye04 Junior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2013
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    Location:
    Europe
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    news ??
     
  7. SteveWlf

    SteveWlf Old-on-Hold

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2012
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    Location:
    Montesano, WA
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    II
    I would like to think that "no news??" is good news and for the most part I think I will stay positive.

    I did have some charger problems, but these were "self inflicted" for the most part and caused by the "wall wart" that plugs into the power strip to supply a 12 vdc signal to the charge controller. If you don't have this secured (duct taped) down it can and did work loose causing an intermittent signal, causing the charge contactor to open. This caused a spike that blow the fuse and some power components in the charger. (God. I hate Wall Warts! God! Bless Duct Tape!)

    Then I had problems with about four cells, all in bank #4 and all were clustered to gather, both in location and production numbers. I do know that one over heated because there was "off-gas" residue on the clear plastic battery box cover, directly over the vent. I isolated that cell and continued to try and operate with 75 cells but began to notice these other cells were charging more aggressively/faster than the others. Going into top balancing mode (3.5v) early and quickly (with in 20 sec) would reach the max of 3.65v, which causes the cell boards to open circuit the cell loop and stop the whole charge and/or top balancing process.

    Calb battery manufacturer initially agreed to replace the first two that I reported but before they got back to me about this replacement I had already identified two more, along with an additional two that showed early indications of this same problem of charging faster than the majority of the other cells. They finally agreed to send me a total of six replacement cells to cover, four current problem cells and the other two, as needed.
    Actually, in retrospect, they were willing to make thing right even though they had reservation about what was causing this problem. Keegan, at Calib, US distributor was also very helpful.
    I have since installed the four replacement batteries and bench balanced that one bank.
    Performance wise, I have been getting 53 miles at moderate freeway speed of 60 mph in blended mode (EV with ICE for exceleration or upgrade pulls). I have done this on four trips on the same highway and traffic. If I stop and charge for 2 hrs at a public Level 2 charging station, I can get another 30 mile on my homeward bound trip. Mileage ends up about 80-85 mpg. For local driving, the charge does fine for up to 60 miles round trip if I drive with an eye the MFD.

    However: (always the "however"). I still have a problem with this bank #4, the one with the new cells. It charges slower than the other three banks which goes into Top Balance (3.5 v) before bank #4. This would be be ok except that one cell in bank #1 reaches max voltage (3.65v) before 18 of the 19 cells in bank #4 enter the Top Balance mode. The end result is these 18 cells never see the benefit of the Top Balance and the bank voltage is lower than the other three banks.
    I am going to make one more attempt at top balancing this bank with my small, smart charger. It can only handle 6 cells at a time but I plan to top balance in groups of 5, 5, 5 and 4.
    If this doesn't eliminate this pack problem then I will replace that cell in bank #1 that goes to max early in the pack charge.

    This has and still is a learning process.

    Steve
     
  8. Prius Downunder

    Prius Downunder Junior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2012
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    Location:
    Adelaide, South Australia
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    II

    Hi Steve,

    I think you'll find that the cells will naturally (top) balance over time. This is what I found with my EV conversion (EVric) that at first the BMS would switch off the charger when the first cell reached 4.1 volts! now all cells reach an average of 3.69V just before the charger switches itself off. All cells reach the "bypass" state (3.65V) of the BMS modules (EV Power modules).
    In saying this, I did not have to replace cells and all cells obviously have to have very close capacity.
    I think the trick is, if you are introducing a new cell to try and match the SOC proir to adding it to the pack. Sorry, you probably already know this.

    I have now purchased the (76) 40Ah winston cells and the EV Power BMS modules ready to design the battery frame for the Prius conversion.
    I have started a blog on the "EV Plus" website but things are slow as time goes to fast! and my wife drives the Prius every day for work and play.
    The "EV Plus" blog will show photos and description of my progress on converting an Australian Gen 2 (2008) Prius to plug-in with an additional 10kWhs of cells and Plug-in Supply control boxes.

    Eric
     
  9. SteveWlf

    SteveWlf Old-on-Hold

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2012
    262
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    Location:
    Montesano, WA
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    II
    I think your correct. I checked at the final stage of my charge and I got all but 14 of the total cells to go into top balance before the 3.67v cut off and they are all in bank #4.
    I'm going to hold off on trying to manually top balance for a while and see what happens. I'm pretty well satisfied with my range now.

    I'm leaving for a 2700 mile round trip to Calif.. Not going to get a lot of advantage from the 10kw pack unless I want to take a 3 hour nap, every 53 miles but will charge every chance I get along the way. I'm a member of Charge Point and Blink plus I can search out other stations on Plug Share that I am also a member of. I have been offering to Share my own Level 2 charging station to others and have had a few Leafs stop by. I also carry a standard 120 volt cord and can charge Level 1 or opportunity charge as well.

    Steve
     
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