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    lesdit New Member

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    What is going on with these two PHEV providers ? The two web pages are almost identical, almost same text, same color, etc.

    www dot pluginsupply dot com ( has CAN bus spoof 72 mph now )
    www dot pluginsolutions dot net ( older tech )

    Is there some kind of scamming going on here ?:eek:
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    cproaudio Speedlock Overrider

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    I thought they're the same company. PICC is the one that's different.
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    ledfoot New Member

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    Here is the answer from our /pis page on our website:

    Plug-in Solutions

    This is to warn the public about Plug In Solutions.

    Plug In Solutions is controlled by Brad Sachs and Andra Sachs (aka Jungle Motors).

    Plug In Solutions is a failed business.

    The original purpose of Plug In Solutions was to manufacture Plug-In Supply products. The relationship was terminated after they breached our partnership agreement by not paying suppliers, cheating dealers and shipping poor quality product.

    The Plug In Solutions web site is an unauthorized copy of the Plug-In Supply web site where they try to sell a poor imitation of the Plug-In Supply product.
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    scottsim New Member

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    I was at PlugInSupply (Robb P, San Rafael, CA) yesterday...

    The latest software (Kitts here), actually a new board, was installed. I will be reviewing it shortly. From what Robb tells me my mpg should be increasing to the 150mpg range.

    The big release from PIS, is still a least a couple of months away that will increase the EV speed to 72mph....this, in actuality will be accomplished by keeping the ICE spinning at below idle speeds, so will be a super "blended" mode.

    Again, let me restate that my dealings with PlugInSupply have been excellent and they have been very supportive of my conversion, done around 16 months ago.
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    sub3marathonman Active Member

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    Maybe a further comment could be made about this, which was previously discussed with comments from queenandra and hybrad2 here: http://priuschat.com/forums/prius-phev-plug-in-modifications/74196-problem-jungle-motors-3.html . Apparently queenandra is Andra Sachs and hybrad2 is Brad Sachs. There had been a judgement issued against Robb Protheroe, but apparently that has been overturned and the case dismissed. I was never able to find any details about the case because it is not possible to access the court papers online.
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    Jungle Girl New Member

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    Latest update on Plug In Supply .
    Robb is still having major financial issues and cannot seem pay his bills., including sales taxes.,., They are all looking for him and we hope they soon find him. He is not only dishonest but really good at spreading rumors and misleading potential customers.

    If you are thinking about purchasing a kit from Robb... DONT DO IT,.. or you risk all your money. If you are sure that you want to purchase a kit,,,then your best bet is call 3 prong power in Colorado. At least they have integrity and are not working on their kitchen table.
    Our experiences with them have been very good,,

    Robb took proprietary information from Cal Cars and built half ass kits in his kitchen,,.,. Most all of them had problems for various reasons... He hookwinked many people including customers, investors, partners ... etc He has gone through so many partners including Rich Hatfield...and many others because he is dishonest.

    If you really want a plug in kit...DO NOT BUY IT FROM ROBB AT PLUG IN SUPPLY...
  7. Online

    mrbigh Prius Absolutum Dominium

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    Yours are really very sharp statements........:eek:
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    sub3marathonman Active Member

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    I would agree with mrbigh, those are some sharp statements, which if false could be considered libelous in a courtroom.

    I have no idea if the statements are true or false, but I do have an idea about the "new poster," Jungle Girl. Would Jungle Girl be one in the same as the previous poster on this same topic, queenandra? Both have just one post, queenandra's location was "sjc," while the "new poster" Jungle Girl's location is San Juan Capistrano (which shortened would be "sjc"). Both own a 2005 Prius, although one lists it as package 3, and the other lists it as package 5. The dates of joining the forum are different too, yet in both cases, years went by without any posting, then one post on this topic. And, IF I'm correct, what would be the reason for using a different name? I wonder.

    OK, here is something else that's very interesting.

    The place that "Jungle Girl" (a.k.a. queenandra???) recommends, 3ProngPower, advertises "Plug-In Supply 10kWh" for $12,699.00 Buy In Now. What is interesting is that the apparently identical kit is available straight from Plug-In Supply for $10,995. Also, it appears that this price from 3ProngPower is just the kit, as it is from Plug-In Supply, without installation, since the other kits mention "Price includes installation." So listening to "Jungle Girl" (a.k.a. queenandra???) might end up costing you $1,704?
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    PA Prius Member

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    Have five months given us any more clarity on these two suppliers?

    PA P
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    kiettyyyy Plug-In Supply Engineer

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    Well, I guess a definitive answer could be found by asking users that have a Plug-In Supply kit on their thoughts.

    Another way of determining the real "designer" of the kit is by checking out high profile conference/trade shows, such as the Green Drive Expo.

    Plug-In Supply routinely displays new, cutting edge technologies at these shows, as well as allowing prospective customers to test drive the vehicles on display.

    Plug-In Solutions, fortunately, is no where to be found.
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    bisco cookie crumbler

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    yes, stay away from all three of them.
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    PriusDIY Junior Member

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    Clearly there's major beef between these two companies. I would really like to hear more from people that are using either kit as I'm interested in converting my Prius.

    I looked at the two company websites and one obviously copied the others code. So who had this design first? The internet archive shows Plug-In Supply had it as early as 2/2008 where Solutions first snapshot came much later.

    Take a look at Plug In Solutions testimonials page. The one I find particularly interesting is David K's who links to his website: http://sites.google.com/site/priusupgrade/. On his site I clearly read that he installed the Plug-In Supply kit, check out his pictures too. In batch 3, pic 214 I'm reading Plug-In Supply on that case.
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    miscrms Plug Envious Member

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    I know very little about the conflict between these companies, as I've been out of the PHEV loop for a year or two. As someone who was peripherally involved in the open source cal-cars prius plus work years ago I can offer a few possibly relevant recollections.

    First, no one "took" proprietary information from the cal-cars project as far as I know. This project was open source and very collaborative. Like many open source projects, its intent was to increase the collective knowledge in this area with an expectation that others would take that knowledge and build upon it.

    Second, I do recall Robb being an active contributor to that community, and many DIYers benefited from his work.

    Third, I do not recall anyone from Jungle Motors or 3 Prong being regular contributors, but that could just be my memory. I want to say that Jungle Motors was among the first to experiment with the "out of gas" mode, but my recollection is they wanted to commercialize that and did not share it with the open source community. Again, its been quite a few years, and I could be mistaken, thats just my recollection without going back to research.

    Forth, as I recall Robb was among the first to take the basic method developed by the cal-cars open source project and turn it into a nice looking package making the conversion accessible to people other than the hardcore DIY types that could do their own cal-cars prius+ conversion. As I recall Robb was also among the first to adapt the prius+ design concept from PbA to Li-ion, and made numerous other improvements that were beyond the scope of the open source projects mandate to explore the least expensive ways of converting a Prius to PHEV

    This is reflected in the Electric Auto Association page used by the cal cars Prius+ team, which I believe has been more or less static since around 2008. In the page linked below, Plug-in Supply is listed with a 10kW LiFePO4 conversion available with 140 conversions completed (the most of anyone listed aside from Enginer), 3-Prong is listed with a lead-acid conversion with 12 conversions completed, and Plugin-Solutions is not listed at all.

    http://www.eaa-phev.org/wiki/Prius_PHEV#Kits_and_Conversions

    I can't offer any clarity on who did what to who, but can hopefully provide a little bit of historical perspective. Its sad that this all seems to have played out as it did, when the early history was based on a lot of excellent collaboration and sharing of information and learnings even amongst people who were working on competing commercial products. There seemed to be a genuine sense that the most important thing was to enable as many conversions to get out there as possible.
    usnavystgc and dave77 like this.
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    sub3marathonman Active Member

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    Actually, I don't know any details either. But the judge who heard the case decided in favor of Plug-In Supply (Robb Protheroe), so I don't really need to know everything. And to "stay away from all three of them" does not seem logical, since an impartial person heard the story and made a decision.

    I also, earlier in this thread, showed misleading/questionable statements from those associated with Plug-In Solutions and 3-Prong Power. Now I'm wondering if the current website from Plug-In Solutions is violating any court order.
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    Flaninacupboard Senior Member

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    Plug in Supply are continuing to develop their products, with new/better features, i.e. high speed EV mode and Gen3 compatibility. Plug in Solutions are just selling a lithium pack and a button to enter out of gas mode.

    Which sounds better to you???
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    mwalsh Member

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    mrbigh Prius Absolutum Dominium

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    What a tragedy... RIP
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    bisco cookie crumbler

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    wow, this does not make sense, and yet, it all fits.:unsure:

    after reading the article, seems a bit of bernie made off in them. tragic for the 5 children, one of whom was also shot.

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