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Prius Brake Recall – A Little More Information

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by Prius Team, Feb 10, 2010.

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  1. Prius Team

    Prius Team Toyota Marketing USA

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    As promised, we have a little more information for you. PC asked, we listened. Now here’s a few more answers. We hope there’s more to come.
    Q1. Does the update change the way the ABS works?
    A1. We are shortening the braking force timing and the lowering the pedal pressure. These changes will make the Prius ABS equivalent to non-hybrid vehicles.
    Q2. Will the software update affect full emergency braking?
    A2. The stopping distance will be slightly shorter
    Q3. Is there a fuel-economy impact or effectiveness change for regenerative braking that comes with the update?
    A3. As this remedy involves the ABS braking force timing and pedal pressure, there is no impact to the regenerative braking system or fuel economy.
    Q4. How will the solution be rolled out across the country? When can customers begin contacting their dealers for the software update?
    A4. The software was made available via our web based Toyota Information System application early on 2/9. As of close of business on 2/9, dealers had remedied approximately 25,000 customer owned and in-stock vehicles.
    Q5. Is the update to the production line the exact same one that the current owners will receive? Why did you implement the update in the factory and ignore the NHTSA and Toyota Customer Care customer complaints about already sold vehicles until now?
    A5. The update is the same, the software is slightly different. Reprogramming “remedy” software requires more code than programming “production” software. This also explains the slight delay between production and recall remedy timing.
    Q6. Can Toyota provide in-depth technical details on the software update?
    A6. The precise technical details are not available. The result of the software change is to shorten the ABS braking force delay and to lower the pedal pressure required to stop. The result is shorter stopping distance and a more positive braking feel.
    Q7. Can you tell us the number of complaints, accidents, or incidents in the US?
    A7. NHTSA has recorded over 125 complaints.
    Doug Coleman
    Prius Product Manager
    Toyota Motor Sales, USA
    Editorial note: We have updated our 2010 Prius Recall FAQs page with this new information from Doug & Toyota.
    48 people like this.
  2. Paradox

    Paradox Prius Enthusiast / Moderator Staff Member

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    Thank You Doug for the information. Great to know fuel economy will not be affected amongst all the other information. Shorter stopping distance is always a plus too.
  3. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North Staff Member

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    Thanks Doug! This thread has been "stickied".
  4. HTMLSpinnr

    HTMLSpinnr Moderator Staff Member

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    Thanks - this should be enough for most of us. I'm curious on the definition of reduced pedal pressure. I may need to go do a panic stop or two to validate ;)
  5. Airbalancer

    Airbalancer Active Member

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    How many 2010 Prius sold?
    125/ # sold?
  6. jburns

    jburns Senior Senior Member

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    Thanks for the information.
  7. Prius Team

    Prius Team Toyota Marketing USA

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    Over 100k and counting.

    Doug Coleman
    Prius Product Manager
    Toyota Motor Sales, USA
  8. John2010

    John2010 Junior Member

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    Thanks for the update Doug.
  9. HTMLSpinnr

    HTMLSpinnr Moderator Staff Member

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    I said what the heck - updated my TIS subscription to view the campaign info. $15/2 days well spent.

    According to the campaign letter Q&A, approximately 133,000 2010 Prius vehicles are affected (and 14,550 Lexus HS250h vehicles)

    Some may be interested to know that the braking calibration software is different for 15" wheel vehicles than 17" wheel vehicles.
    1 person likes this.
  10. spiderman

    spiderman wretched

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    Probably not the place to ask, but... is there any reason this programming wasn't in place to begin with? I mean, more positive brake feel, shorter stopping distance...

    Is there a downside to this update at all?
  11. HTMLSpinnr

    HTMLSpinnr Moderator Staff Member

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    Continuous improvement? With the first iteration of anything - is it ever perfect out the door? Take MS Windows (no, really, take it) - they release Service Packs, etc. to make things better and to improve. Think of this as a "Service Pack" for your brakes...
  12. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    Consumers haven't adapted to the idea of routinely updating a vehicle, yet.

    They're still in the mindset of the vehicle they drive simply getting old over time, never an opportunity for non-aftermarket improvement. In fact, any type of change like that is considered a recall, an inexcusable factory imperfection... even though the next model always offers improvements.

    Prius G3 SP1. Hmm?
    .
    3 people like this.
  13. HTMLSpinnr

    HTMLSpinnr Moderator Staff Member

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    Tried this out on a 35-0mph stop. Don't have a G-Tech to measure for sure, but the butt dyno was impressed, and the center armrest flying down in the rear from it's fully upright position would concur.
  14. cwerdna

    cwerdna Senior Member

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    Big thank you from me!

    FWIW, I've never seen official Nissan reps on Nissan forums when recalls come out.
  15. ken1784

    ken1784 SuperMID designer

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  16. Airbalancer

    Airbalancer Active Member

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    So 0.09% of the people thought it was bad enough to complain
    My wife has no complain, so that tells me this is a minor problem
    Not have dual zone AC and not have heated seats major problem :D
  17. chimo

    chimo New Member

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    Oh-oh. Pretty soon we will see a new round of troll posts saying that they got the firmware update for the brakes and then got rear-ended from stopping too quickly. :)
  18. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web 03 and 10 Prius

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    There may be some side effects but most of us don't have a proper test track to measure them. Speculation on my part, it may not be the best answer for roads covered in black ice BUT such roads would defeat anything without studded tires anyway. But we see latent defects in engineering all the time.

    We do the best we can based upon our understanding of the requirements. Then within a short period of time, reality reaches out and smacks us with a 'clue by four.' It happens and the clever engineer knows the job is not done until the customer says it is done.

    Bob Wilson
  19. HTMLSpinnr

    HTMLSpinnr Moderator Staff Member

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    11pm at night in a residential-ish area - I checked my surroundings first ;)

    Spiderman, after careful review of the service campaign material from Toyota's TIS site (Techinfo), it would appear that this is the 4th revision since inception (mine had the first) - there's continuous improvement all the time.
  20. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web 03 and 10 Prius

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    It sounds like to keep current, we need someone to subscribe and monitor the TIS site. But that could be a little expensive. Still, if this were a local car club, I'd make a motion to have a TIS-sitter office created and ask for dues to cover the cost.

    The TIS-sitter would be required to periodically, say every two weeks to month, post a summary of the TIS with the areas impacted. That way the dues-paying members could keep current without having to pay the full weight.

    I think the mechanism for creating 'private' forums might be just the ticket and introduce a new paradigm (and headaches) for Danny and his team.

    Bob Wilson
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