Prius Brake Recall – A Little More Information

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by Prius Team, Feb 10, 2010.

  • by Prius Team, Feb 10, 2010 at 8:44 PM
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    Prius Team Toyota Marketing USA

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    Location:
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    Your Vehicle Year:
    2008 Prius
    As promised, we have a little more information for you. PC asked, we listened. Now here’s a few more answers. We hope there’s more to come.


    Q1. Does the update change the way the ABS works?
    A1. We are shortening the braking force timing and the lowering the pedal pressure. These changes will make the Prius ABS equivalent to non-hybrid vehicles.

    Q2. Will the software update affect full emergency braking?
    A2. The stopping distance will be slightly shorter

    Q3. Is there a fuel-economy impact or effectiveness change for regenerative braking that comes with the update?
    A3. As this remedy involves the ABS braking force timing and pedal pressure, there is no impact to the regenerative braking system or fuel economy.

    Q4. How will the solution be rolled out across the country? When can customers begin contacting their dealers for the software update?
    A4. The software was made available via our web based Toyota Information System application early on 2/9. As of close of business on 2/9, dealers had remedied approximately 25,000 customer owned and in-stock vehicles.

    Q5. Is the update to the production line the exact same one that the current owners will receive? Why did you implement the update in the factory and ignore the NHTSA and Toyota Customer Care customer complaints about already sold vehicles until now?
    A5. The update is the same, the software is slightly different. Reprogramming “remedy” software requires more code than programming “production” software. This also explains the slight delay between production and recall remedy timing.

    Q6. Can Toyota provide in-depth technical details on the software update?
    A6. The precise technical details are not available. The result of the software change is to shorten the ABS braking force delay and to lower the pedal pressure required to stop. The result is shorter stopping distance and a more positive braking feel.

    Q7. Can you tell us the number of complaints, accidents, or incidents in the US?
    A7. NHTSA has recorded over 125 complaints.


    Q8. Why are there over 400 complaints registered in the NHTSA data base for braking conditions on a second generation Prius? This seems to indicate the brake recall for the 2010 MY Prius also should apply to the 2004-2009 MY Prius.
    A8. Because the ABS system and software is completely different between the second and third generation Prius, we need to evaluate complaints separately. We are willing and eager to evaluate concerns observed on second generation Prius that are similar to A0B on third generation Prius. Please help us identify and remedy any issue by contacting your local dealer. Please keep in mind that posts on PriusChat (a third-party forum) or other similar sites are NOT in any way an official registration of your concern, and cannot help us diagnose the issue.

    Doug Coleman
    Prius Product Manager
    Toyota Motor Sales, USA
    48 people like this.
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Comments

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by Prius Team, Feb 10, 2010.

  1. Paradox
    Thank You Doug for the information. Great to know fuel economy will not be affected amongst all the other information. Shorter stopping distance is always a plus too.
  2. Tideland Prius
    Thanks Doug! This thread has been "stickied".
  3. HTMLSpinnr
    Thanks - this should be enough for most of us. I'm curious on the definition of reduced pedal pressure. I may need to go do a panic stop or two to validate ;)
  4. Airbalancer
    How many 2010 Prius sold?
    125/ # sold?
  5. jburns
    Thanks for the information.
  6. Prius Team
    Over 100k and counting.

    Doug Coleman
    Prius Product Manager
    Toyota Motor Sales, USA
  7. John2010
    Thanks for the update Doug.
  8. HTMLSpinnr
    I said what the heck - updated my TIS subscription to view the campaign info. $15/2 days well spent.

    According to the campaign letter Q&A, approximately 133,000 2010 Prius vehicles are affected (and 14,550 Lexus HS250h vehicles)

    Some may be interested to know that the braking calibration software is different for 15" wheel vehicles than 17" wheel vehicles.
    1 people like this.
  9. spiderman
    Probably not the place to ask, but... is there any reason this programming wasn't in place to begin with? I mean, more positive brake feel, shorter stopping distance...

    Is there a downside to this update at all?
  10. HTMLSpinnr
    Continuous improvement? With the first iteration of anything - is it ever perfect out the door? Take MS Windows (no, really, take it) - they release Service Packs, etc. to make things better and to improve. Think of this as a "Service Pack" for your brakes...
  11. john1701a
    Consumers haven't adapted to the idea of routinely updating a vehicle, yet.

    They're still in the mindset of the vehicle they drive simply getting old over time, never an opportunity for non-aftermarket improvement. In fact, any type of change like that is considered a recall, an inexcusable factory imperfection... even though the next model always offers improvements.

    Prius G3 SP1. Hmm?
    .
    3 people like this.
  12. HTMLSpinnr
    Tried this out on a 35-0mph stop. Don't have a G-Tech to measure for sure, but the butt dyno was impressed, and the center armrest flying down in the rear from it's fully upright position would concur.
  13. cwerdna
    Big thank you from me!

    FWIW, I've never seen official Nissan reps on Nissan forums when recalls come out.
  14. ken1784
  15. Airbalancer
    So 0.09% of the people thought it was bad enough to complain
    My wife has no complain, so that tells me this is a minor problem
    Not have dual zone AC and not have heated seats major problem :D
  16. chimo
    Oh-oh. Pretty soon we will see a new round of troll posts saying that they got the firmware update for the brakes and then got rear-ended from stopping too quickly. :)
  17. bwilson4web
    There may be some side effects but most of us don't have a proper test track to measure them. Speculation on my part, it may not be the best answer for roads covered in black ice BUT such roads would defeat anything without studded tires anyway. But we see latent defects in engineering all the time.

    We do the best we can based upon our understanding of the requirements. Then within a short period of time, reality reaches out and smacks us with a 'clue by four.' It happens and the clever engineer knows the job is not done until the customer says it is done.

    Bob Wilson
  18. HTMLSpinnr
    11pm at night in a residential-ish area - I checked my surroundings first ;)

    Spiderman, after careful review of the service campaign material from Toyota's TIS site (Techinfo), it would appear that this is the 4th revision since inception (mine had the first) - there's continuous improvement all the time.
  19. bwilson4web
    It sounds like to keep current, we need someone to subscribe and monitor the TIS site. But that could be a little expensive. Still, if this were a local car club, I'd make a motion to have a TIS-sitter office created and ask for dues to cover the cost.

    The TIS-sitter would be required to periodically, say every two weeks to month, post a summary of the TIS with the areas impacted. That way the dues-paying members could keep current without having to pay the full weight.

    I think the mechanism for creating 'private' forums might be just the ticket and introduce a new paradigm (and headaches) for Danny and his team.

    Bob Wilson

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