Prius Two beats EVs in cost per mile in Michigan

i like it!

 

A bit biased, but true for that particular pricing scheme.
Title of article is incorrect, as that isn't true for all Michigan drivers.
I'm not sure about Michigan, but here in MN it is pretty easy to get off peak rates which significantly lower the price.

 

yes, i don't know the average in mass, but i suspect it would be even worse than michigan.

 

Same in Australia - only more-so. An EV doesn't compare - unless you have SOLAR.

 

that's the whole point, isn't it?

 

Excellent analysis similar to what I'm doing with my BMW i3-REx in Huntsville. The key is using the local gasoline and electric rates:

• $1.71 / gallon - GasBuddy cheapest regular in Huntsville
  
• $0.10 / kWh - highest, residential rate in Huntsville

In my case, the BMW i3-REx is still cheaper and a Prius would have to achieve 74.4 MPG to reach price parity. This is in the range of a Level 2 ECO without question. It is legit.

Bob Wilson

 

Try paying:
0.25€c/kWh (all from renewable though...)
1.25€/L gas (and that is quite cheap compared to most EU countries)

Make the calculations again and let's see

 

I knew someone would ask for standard units. <grins>

I'll try to post the workbook, OpenOffice, tonight with an SAE and standard unit versions. I'm partial to L/100 km for vehicle efficiency. I'll also check with the BMW forum to see if they are OK with km/kWh or something else.

<GROAN>Google<YECH>

Bob Wilson

ps. I am not a fan of Google having its cotton pickin' hands in everyone's data. It is why I don't trust 'cloud.'

 

No, I wasn't asking for standard units, I was asking to put EU prices in the calculations...

 

Since we're talking Michigan...they are going to start taxing hybrids approx. $50/year which is a policy mistake. For EV's, I believe their new fee will be about ~$135/yr. not sure where eg; PHEV Volt lands.

So that'll make 2 states taxing hybrids: ID and MI

If anyone has more details pls advise.

 

$135?!?
How much is the state portion of the gas tax in MI?

NM, looks to be a whopping $0.32/gallon (after you take into account MI charges sales tax for gasoline).
Taking that into account, the average vehicle is charged about $150 annually, so the $50 & $135 is almost a bargain, from a strict financial calculation.
Quite the regressive gas tax.

 

Even if it is true, it makes too little sense. Because EV's/Plugin won't be ready for mass-production for a long time. They are niche cars like FC/FC hybrid vehicles.
A lot of people claim that with the introduction of EV's, Toyota gasoline hybrids now are considered a dead-end technology. Yet EVs/plugins cannot compete with prius. Toyota had been selling about 300k hybrids in US on prius peak years. Still Toyota sells 1.2 M hybrids annually for the last 4-5 years.
If EV/Plug-ins would sell 300k cars from 2016 and after then take a look what it would have been like:
1) Fact: About 3.8 Twh = the US annual electricity consumption in 2000 year.
2) Fact: About 4.1 Twh = the US annual electricity consumption in 2015 year, an increase of electricity production about 7% in a period of 15 years.
3) Fact: EV/plugins need 30kwh for every 100 miles.
4) Assumption the average buyer drives 50 miles per day and everyone of them charge every day using 17kwh grid power.
5) 300000 annual EV/plugin car sales in US x 365 days per year x 17 kwh = over 1.8 Twh! An increase of 45 % in just one year! But also for every year after that US would have needed to build environmentaly friendly infrastructure to always produce an addidional 1.8 Twh!

Even those who promote EV/plugins acknowledge the expansion of EV/plugins as a mass-product won't be plausible earlier than even in 20 years from now. Until then EV's/plugins will be a niche product for the rich people.

 

i think ev plug ins will expand each year, and not only for rich people, but middle class as well.

 

Your facts are in error.

1 and 2 are off by a factor of 1000.
US energy production in 2015 was just over 4 Trillion Kwh, not watt-hours.

Your "assumption" about annual driving is also wrong. The average driver does not drive 50 miles a day, 365 days a year.
The average annual mileage is around 13,000. 50 miles a day 365 days a year would be over 18,000 miles/ year.

Once those are corrected, your calculation of for 300,000 EVs comes out to about 1.2 TwH, with the 2000 total of 3800 TwH, that is about 0.03%, not 45%.

 

One HUGE difference that's not accounted for: you can drive an EV "normally" day in/day out and still achieve stellar mpg(e)'s; no hypermiling or soft pedaling needed. I can keep up or stay ahead of traffic (5-10mph over the speed limit), leave others from a stop, no short trip/warmup penalty, etc, and still achieve 100+ mpg(e) on a daily basis.

Although the OP is about BEV's, the beauty for the PHEV design is the ability to choose your fuels if necessary. Electricity costs would have to be prohibitively high for me personally to choose gas over electric propulsion due to EV's inherent advantages of torque and NVH. Here in the south on a hot day, parking a cold engine in the garage at the end of the day is another plus that really helps keep that part of the house MUCH cooler.

 

You are correct. It seems I have lost it.
So the race now is to cover the assumptive 1 Twh needed to power the 300k EV's/plugins from renewable generation capacity. Right?
Do you think US will be able to cover these such needs in the short-term/ mid-term future?

 

no prolemo. because ev's will only grow at a pace that is sustainable.

 

If I recall correctly, Prius battery can handle about 25 hp on a few occasions depended on several factors.
On the other hand I think I heard of the Prime that the battery is so extraordinarily powerful that the car uses both MG1 (? hp) and MG2 (100hp) to accelerate and you can floor the throttle pedal and still the car will accelerate on EV upto 85 mph.

Given the fact that the 25hp battery is very expensive to replace, I wonder about the cost to replace the superman battery and its longenvity.

 

Well, we are already at about 20% renewables and wind and solar are growing pretty rapidly.
In addition, there is a ton of unused capacity already in place. Those cars that charge at night help utilities and don't require additional power generation.

While it isn't all renewable, it is all cleaner than the average ICE vehicle, and for 65% of the population of the USA it is cleaner than 50mpg.
In general, the more renewables on the grid, the better!