Discussion in 'Gen II Prius Fuel Economy' started by Danny, Jul 30, 2008.
The difference is their respective histories.
The quotes that I received to have the system done are currently not in a ballpark that PriusChat and I (as a company) can handle. Now that I'm done with a couple of other things on the site, I'll put my focus back on this project, get in touch with Jason, and see what's best for PriusChat.
I'm going to get some more quotes from programmers and then might enlist the community to donate to an effort to build the database. I think it's an important component for the community as we enter the 3rd generation of the Prius' life, so it is definitely something that is coming to PriusChat in one format or another.
Jason started greenhybrid.com as a forum and mileage database. People like the database and community and the website grew. When the internet traffic reached a certain level Jason sold the website. I'm not knocking Jason for selling the website. It was a collaborative effort between Jason as the founder and administrator and the members who provided the data. Each needed the other. If it had stopped there I would have no issue.
What bothers me is that Jason apparently had a falling out with the new owners of GreenHybrids.com. Now he has set up an identical database myhybridcar.com and is trolling around Priuschat, greenhybrid, cleanmpg, etc advertising his new site. He wants us to stop using his old site, which he sold for a profit, and start using his new database. I'll assume when this new website gets enough hits per day to be sold he will sell this new site like he did the last one.
All in all this has put a sour taste in my mouth about using a database on a private website. For that reason I've stopped contributing to my greenhybrid.com mileage log and will be using Fuel Economy instead. I'd much rather spend my time entering data for research use by the Oak Ridge National Laboratory then building up a website for Jason to sell for personal gain.
Thanks for the info. I did research his site before I entered my info, as I always do, and found that he did/had owned GreenHybrid.com and also owns Volconvo.com and possibly a few others. The contact for GreenHybrid.com was Domains by Proxy, Inc., so I thought possibly he still owned it, but didn't want his actual contact information out on the web.
I'd be happy to talk with any of you on a one-on-one basis if you'd like some direct information. I'm sure I could clarify a few things.
I'd prefer to see what you have to say in regards to JSH post
This is true, and I think it's fair to note that GreenHybrid's old mileage database was the largest of its kind—anywhere.
This is true but somewhat misleading. I did not solicit offers, even after the site became very popular. I received a respectable proposal from Internet Brands around the time I was preparing for college, and I decided I needed to be flexible during my only years at university. In the hands of a well-resourced company, I thought, GreenHybrid would have the best chance. In retrospect I was incorrect.
Again, let's be fair. I posted in this thread to be transparent and open to discussion. I'm not trying to siphon users from PriusChat; instead I'd like to partner with Danny and the community. I also haven't even posted at CleanMPG since 2006, to my recollection.
I suppose I can't convince you otherwise, but what I can do is offer you simple downloadable spreadsheets of your data so that if this were ever the case, you could quickly and easily restore your data elsewhere.
I also gather you refuse to post here at PriusChat because the owner makes significant revenue from advertising and the store? Nonsense. You're here for the community, as am I. And owners, managers and administrators ought to be able to make some income for providing infrastructure and features, purchasing software and advertising, and enabling dedicated consumers like you.
How's that, sfvb?
Thank you, Danny for your reply. I know you're a busy guy. I'm sure we'd be happy to pitch in, I know I would.
I'm aware that Danny makes money from this site and I have no problem with that. If he decides to sell PriusChat and make some more money that is his business. However, if after he sell PriusChat he comes back to tell us all about his new site PriusTalk and how we should should all switch to his new site, he will get the same response from me that you did.
Again, I have no issue with you selling GreenHybrids.com. It is your return for seconds that bothers me. I'm not interested in helping you build up a new site so you can repeat the profit cycle. Your trolling here on PriusChat for new users and attacks on your old site is what completely turned me off to your new site.
Specifically this post: http://priuschat.com/forums/freds-house-pancakes/59678-introducing-myhybridcar-com.html
"Hi, this is Jason Siegel, the founder of GreenHybrid.com. I'd like to introduce the all-new myHybridcar.com, which I've launched as a direct competitor to the site which I believe has been razed under the ownership of Internet Brands.
There you'll find an easy-to-use fuel economy database and other discussion areas for consumers.
For all your Prius needs, priuschat.com is it. For everything else, there's myHybridcar.com. I hope to see you there!"
There is a technical issue that has to do with finding a place to keep and share mileage records. As I and others have pointed out, there are many options that have strengths and weakness. Personally, I'd prefer to see a private web site that has evidence of active development followed by a government web site that might have some legs.
In life we have two guarantees, death and taxes. Everything else is negotiable and I'm not here to claim perfection in any of the available mileage databases. I'm just looking for one that matches my 'cognitive style' realizing that my criteria may not match what other seek.
Now some of us are Southerners and as such, share some cultural aspects. One of which is the ability to forgive, perhaps not forget, but at least understand that as long as we are human, we will make mistakes. When that happens, we acknowledge the problem and then make a new plan. One of our best Southern traditions is when we recognize this and not nag someone over and over again.
The old GreenHybrid database is dead and the last time I tried to use it, the Internet Brands version of a GreenHybrid database has structural flaws that make it unusable. So I needed a place to keep my mileage records and do engineering studies. I've chosen to go with a database that comes closest to my technical goals and objectives. Discussing personalities, nagging them, really doesn't contribute to the technical issues.
Sorry, I may currently live in Alabama but I'm not a southerner. They would never have me even if I wanted to be one. I was born and raised in Michigan but have spent the last 9 years in VA, TN, and AL. The funny thing is that before I moved south, geographical place of birth had no meaning. It was only after the move that I was made very aware of my status as a "damn Yankee" and realized that for some people your place of birth is far more important than your character. As far as forgiveness goes, I've seen no evidence that that it is a southern trait. Many I have interacted with still have a Civil War mindset and still see a country divided North / South with a deep seeded mistrust of anyone not born in a 50 mile radius.
I would happily leave tomorrow and never look back. My wife has had a very different experience in Alabama. She works at a start-up company in Birmingham where transplants outnumber locals. Her co-workers literally come from all over the world. My experience has been primarily in small towns were racism is alive and well and people don't even attempt to hide it.
I'm not sure why you say the GreenHybrid database is dead. I just logged in today and added a few tanks. It worked just like usual and the average in my signature updated like normal. I keep a personal log on each vehicle I own so any online data is redundant.
Wow! Did they back out the other one?
Also, my apologies for assuming you were southern. My wife is also a transplant but asked to say here in Huntsville in 1989 and then again between 1996-2000. But that is another story for another time and place. <grins>
I also went to "add a tank" to my car in GH, and found that the set of tanks that they had for me in the new database was garbage. I then deleted my car, added it back in and then switched over to Jason's new web site where I entered all 450+ tanks . Jason is responsive to suggested features and fully supports his users so I will continue to support his efforts.
I also maintain a separate, local spreadsheet of my data for archival and analysis so that my data is secure no matter what others do.
I'm pleased to inform you all that data backups are now available as Excel files at myHybridCar.com.
Sounds to me, like any business person is entitled, Jason built up a a business then when owning that business no longer suited Jason he took an opportunity which was offered to him and sold his business. I don't know if Jason offered the business to others in the hybrid/green community but I can see no reason people should complain about Jason's actions. I suspect Jason believed the new owner would protect the value of their investment and maintain the asset, from some accounts they failed to do this.
Jason is also quite within his rights as a business person to start a new and similar business if and when it falls withing the terms of the sale of his old business, can't fault him there.
As far as "trolling" PriusChat I think it is normal practise for sites of common interest to cross promote and using one site does not preclude a person from using another. In fact many on this thread use many sites and many forums and rather than inhibit their contributions I suspect it enhances them. No problem there.
Only thing I can think that Jason may have done that people may have a reason, to complain is if the information the site members contributed to his old site became inaccessible to the members after the change of ownership, any contract of sale should include a guarantee that contributors are informed of the change of ownership and have a guarantee of access to information they have stored on the site. This may not be a legal responsibility but it is a moral one.
Jason I don't know you and don't use your site but I wish you every success with your new site.
End of rant!
I think that Jason may have learned a lesson here. Remember, he is a young student that had an early success in his Internet ventures and had little prior business experience. He is now providing mechanisms for his users to protect their data in his new venture (see his note above).
Wow, I can't believe you entered all those 450+ tanks. I just started with the last 10 when I switched over to Jason's site.
Planning a short trip this next Saturday Fort Worth to Oklahoma City. So I decided to top off the 2009 Prius.
Last time I filled up:
Total miles driven 271
Total 6.094 gallon Cost $14.99
Miles per/gallon 271 mile/6.094 gallon = 44.46 miles per gallon
Total miles driven 69.4
Total topped off with .287 gallon (less than 1/3 gallon) Cost $0.70 cents
Miles per/gallon 69.4 mile/0.287 gallon = 241.81 miles per gallon
We are going to have to do this more often.
How did you get such great gas mileage??
Any closer on the new setup? Donation box open yet?
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