Pulse and the Elusive 'Glide' ???????

Hi All !

I was going to comment in another thread regarding 'ECO' mode but thought I'd just start a dedicated thread, as it seems that several were interested in the elusive 'Glide' where there are no arrows on the display.

I'm very technically oriented, and have read a lot about Pulse and Glide. With my brand new 2010 II, in the dead of winter (0-20 degrees F), I'm getting right at about 48 MPG average in mixed driving for the first 1000 miles, and I have gotten 52.6 indicated (50.0 calculated) on a 220 mile trip. I'm extremely happy with this mileage, as I've read that many get far less with a new car in the winter.

I have a scanguage II and have noticed several things that are kind of contrary to the information here on the site.

First ... I've found that my engine never goes to 0 RPM when coasting until I go downward 'through' 42 MPH to 41 MPH. It seems that here at PC the general consensus with the Gen III's is that the ICE will kick off at 45 MPH. Mine seems to be 41 MPH. When coasting and speeding UP (down a hill, for example), the ICE will start up at between 41 and 42 MPH, so the same behavior up and down, but at roughly 3.5 MPH less that most here seem to report.

Second .... now that I'm getting well used to the car, I've switched from using the one screen where 'ECO' lights up unless you're in power mode, to using the display that shows the arrows. I've been trying for about a week now to get into the 'Glide' mode like everybody talks about, and have actually achieved it maybe 3 times for about a second each time. I do what everybody says .... accelerate to speed, release the pedal, and then very lightly get back into the pedal. I can easily get the ICE to shut off when doing that, but 'Glide' mode is damn near impossible to achieve in my car.

Third .... I've been using Normal mode mostly, not really using the 'ECO' setting, as the throttle response is so lame that it just annoys me. I WILL try it on the highway in cruise though now that I've read that it works nicely. I've been amazed at the solidity of the cruise control to hold the speed EXACTLY at the set speed. It very rarely goes off the speed that it's set at, so if using 'ECO' let it vary more in cruise .... that would annoy me and I wouldn't use it in all likelihood.

Is anyone else easily achieving the mystical 'Glide' no arrows nirvana that I'm struggling with ?? Or is everybody struggling to 'Glide' in the GEN III's ? I must be doing something kinda right to be getting that mileage on a brand new car in the winter, right ? I'd like to take my technical driving of this car to the next level, but the 'Glide' just seems to escape me .....

REV

Forget the no arrow thing. Go back to the screen where ECO lights up unless you're in power mode and stay within the 1/8th of the left side of the ECO bar for gliding.

Oh yeah ... I can do THAT easy .... can't get the arrows to disappear though ... LOL

Thanks ... I like that screen better anyway, to be honest. I use my Scanguage for determining when the ICE is off, and trying to KEEP it off.

REV

On the coast down, it can be sticky and go several ticks below 45 before the ICE shuts off, as if waiting to be certain that the driver really wants to glide. But when pulsing, if I quit speeding up at 44 and go for a glide, the ICE shuts off immediately, no stickiness.

But having the ICE spin up at 41-42 when coasting downhill throws a monkeywrench into this reply. Mine just doesn't do that, unless the engine temperature is falling too much. If yours is still warm enough, then something is different.

32k is right. Forget the difficult arrow display, stick with the easier HSI display and just make the power bar either disappear or get very short. Close is good enough in this game.

I find coasting at approximately 8 mph (on my car) is the only sure fire way to have a zero arrow glide. Other than that, it is like trying to herd cats. I did read on this site that folks were not able to hit the zero arrow glide on the Gen III like could be done with the Gen II. After reading that, I didn't worry about the arrowless glide anymore.

comments from 2nd gen owner

First off, I have a 2nd gen and a ScanGauge. My seat time w/a 3rd gen is very limited and I've never had a SG on it.

From discussions I've skimmed before regarding techniques on the 3rd gen, forget the no arrows stuff. On the 2nd gen, it's very easy to achieve. On the 3rd gen, it's too hard to see the arrows or lack of anyway (display is smaller and far away) and I hear it's hard to get to the state too.

The 42 mph ICE startup threshold was true on the 2nd gen. It does sound like the behavior is a bit different on the 3rd gen.

Are you monitoring your FWT? Are you using the heater? On the HVAC, if you shut off auto and the fan, does the behavior change any with respect to when the ICE starts up/shuts down? On the 2nd gen, if FWT was <=145 F, temp = HI and fan was above off, the ICE would start, to produce cabin heat. (Assuming ICE is warmed up) If you turn the HVAC fan to off at that point, the ICE would shut back down.

Are you sure the ice isn't just spinning as it is known to do to protect the motors? It may not actually be burning gas, at least that's what I've gleaned from other discussions.

Even if it isn't burning gas, it is still wasting the power (~2kw?) needed to spin it. That is what he is trying to stop by going into a real Glide, not Warp Stealth. At the speed of OP's concern, no MG overspin protection is needed.

From my experience, the ICE does not turn itself off while coasting downhill if you are in Power mode, unless you have almost full (7/8 bars) charge. I believe this is so to keep the battery charged in case a burst of power is required, i.e. hard throttling. I could easily steath upto 72km (45mph) before the ICE kicking in, both in Normal and Eco mode. Power mode is a little harder.

Re: comments from 2nd gen owner

Thanks for the replies !

I very rarely use the POWER mode.

What is the difference between 'GLIDE" and 'Stealth' ??

REV

A couple of thoughts. The no arrows forget it, as it is very tricky - I can do it but you spend all your time staring at it vs watching how you are driving. For coasting just keep the HSI indicator up and when no bar in regen and none in any form of power that is basically gliding and is pretty easy to do. Also if you keep the ECO light on on the HSI screen and the power bar below half mileage is very good. The other trick is the instantaneous fuel consumption graph is also displayed on the HSI and you will start to see the correlation with the MPG and the use or power. Lastly I think you said outside temp was 0-20F and the heater settings plus the fact it is just plain cold is going to spin up the ICE more.

Yeah, I realize that this is probably the WORST part of the year to try to analyze these things. I'm just so excited and so eager to learn as much as possible that I'm trying to get as much information as possible as quickly as possible. I've VERY pleased to be doing as well as I am mileage wise. Even when I had other cars I would always try to maximize the mileage ... it was like a challenge to me. Now when I see the CONS numbers and I lose a tenth, I try my hardest to get that tenth back. I don't drive like a fool and tick others off trying to get better MPG's, just try to drive sensibly.

You mention the instantaneous consumption graph ... you're talking about the thing that scans up and down from 0 to 100 MPG right ? I use that all the time.

REV

Yep that is the instantaneous graph. Once you start to see how it correlates with the HSI it gets pretty easy to figure the glide. A simple starting point is when you have 100mpg on fuel consumption and no regen on the HSI that is pretty much gliding.

I'm under the impression that "stealth" is pure electric.

Happy Motoring,

Tom

If you haven't read this already, I suggest you go there and bookmark it and come back again and again to read. It is very hard to digest with just one reading - The Tao of HSI:

http://techno-fandom.org/~hobbit/cars/HSI/

Hobbit does an excellent job of describing many aspects for the GenIII. He has a section about half way down that addresses this issue. His conclusion, "The "energy" screen is completely useless for warp stealth, as it shows regeneration the entire time. In fact the energy screen is pretty useless for anything, as it tells the same "lies by omission" we're already used to."

As to you question, glide is under 42 or 45 mph and stealth is above 45 on a GenIII. Glide shows no rpm's on a SG and stealth shows around 960 rpm's although no fuel is being consumed. In addition to monitoring RPM on the SG, I also like to monitor GPH (gallons per hour) to confirm no fuel usage.

Good point on the gallons per hour. I've been seeing 960 RPM's a lot ... I figured that that was when the ICE spun up to control the electric motor, but as you mentioned, the throttle was closed and no fuel is being used.

Thanks for the link ... I'll check it out !

REV

Just to add some more detail:

Stealth can generally mean moving with no power or by electric motor only (and therefore quietly). In the > 45 mph sense it's short for "warp stealth" and is also referred to as a high-speed glide or Super Highway Mode (SHM).

What exactly is super highway mode or warp stealth ? Is that just when your foot isn't in the throttle ? such as being on a highway, but going down a slight incline where the throttle is closed even though the ICE is spun up ?

REV

Among the PC gang,
"Stealth" usually means driving on electric power only, without the ICE (internal combustion engine) turning. EV mode is an example of stealth driving, but you can drive on electric power when not in EV mode. Indeed, EV mode says it's turning itself off at about 26 mph, but you can, if careful, go a good bit faster without kicking in the ICE. One of the responses on this thread says he gets up to 45---which impresses me--I've never gotten past about 40.

"Warp stealth" or "Super Highway Mode" usually refers to the condition where you are driving on the highway, above about 47 MPH and the ICE shuts off in the sense of not burning any gas. You may use some electric power to maintain speed, or may actually generate electric power for the battery if slowing or going downhill. However, the ICE keeps turning without gas being burned--because otherwise the electric motors would burn themselves out. (No, I can't explain exactly how that works, but hobbit's Tao of HSI article and some other items on PC explain it pretty clearly.)