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Question on PHEV Prius

Discussion in 'Toyota Prius Plug-in' started by adric22, Jul 23, 2010.

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  1. adric22

    adric22 Ev and Hybrid Enthusiast

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    Okay, I hope this is the right forum. The only other closest thing would be "phev modifications" but I'm not sure that is the right place.

    Does anyone know what Toyota's planned pricing scheme is for the PHEV Prius?

    I'm seeing lots of people say 12 to 15 miles is the limit. If that is the case, can we discuss the pros/cons of using an aftermarket plug-in kit on a regular prius which would actually get more range than that?

    Does anyone know the specifications of MG2 in this car? Is it the same or larger than a regular Prius?

    I don't have a problem with the 12 miles range, as that is actually my daily commute - slightly less than 12 miles. I'm already signed up for a Nissan Leaf, but should that fall through for some reason I'll be looking at a Chevy Volt (which will be nearly impossible to get) or a PHEV prius whether it be factory made or aftermarket. I'm currently driving a 2002 Prius with an Enginer kit, but as many know it has serious limitations, mostly due to the belt-driven air conditioner and the fact that the engine always starts when you turn on the car and won't shut off until it has warmed up.
  2. efusco

    efusco Troll Slayer Staff Member

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    We can discuss anything you want!
    The range is about 13 miles, give or take a couple depending upon speed, terrain, etc.
    The MG2 is the same, but it has plenty of torque and power and can go up to ~65mph in EV.

    No pricing information, no confirmation that the production model will have the same battery, range, MG2--it's all in fleet testing right now.

    Hard to know how to compare aftermarket packs vs OEM PHV right now until we have an actual production model to compare and some prices--I think there are obvious advantages to an OEM in the warranty, service, and reliability realm, but the cost/competative marketing might make an aftermarket pack desireable (more desireable) for many.
  3. GrumpyCabbie

    GrumpyCabbie Senior Member

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    A have a question about the Plug In Prius - The talk is that there are three batteries, two that charge from the mains and one for the hybrid side of things. I'm wondering if Toyota will bring out an official option to add batteries to the plug in side to extend the range? Maybe an option of 23 mile range with an extra battery or 30 miles with two extra batteries?
  4. wick1ert

    wick1ert Senior Member

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    I'd think about adding an enginer kit to the PHV if it'd be possible. Then again, I've got a 2010 and should have my enginer kit in my car any month now and no plans to trade up anytime soon. For me, the enginer kit would be more practical than additional OEM ones from Toyota. Enginer would accomodate my commute and my guess would be cheaper than Toyota. As with all vehicles, driver requirements plays a major role. I drive 5 miles to just about everything I do, not counting trips. I typically have anywhere from 5 - 7 stop lights (which seemed timed to make me stop at each one during those daily commutes). I would hope the enginer can pump enough power back into the PHV battery packs to keep them topped off pretty easily given the constant stop-and-go that I deal with.

    Again, it all depends on driving requirements for most people. I could easily get by with the 12 miles on the PHV (although, I do go home for lunch, making my commute 20 miles each day) because I could sneak a plug into some of the 120v outlets in the garage at work.
  5. Paradox

    Paradox Prius Enthusiast / Moderator Staff Member

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    I've heard no talk about having an official option to add more batteries to extend the range. Though I do like the idea for those willing to pay for a second pack stock from Toyota to extend range.
  6. dan2l

    dan2l 2014 Prius v wagon

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    Hi Wick1ert,
    I have had a 4kwhr in my wife's 2010 for several months now. The full details are at...
    http://priuschat.com/forums/gen-iii...ic-vehicle-installation-in-portland-area.html
    I can easily get 99.9mpg on the Prius trip average for trips like yours, if I work to maximize EV. If you just drive normally you will get 80mpg or so.

    To maximize EV, I always start with 7 or 8 bars. The car will start with its ICE warm-up while forward motion comes from electrons. During this first 3/4 mile the Enginer system will generally keep up because I am going slow (20-25mph). Then I come to a full stop and after 5-10seconds the ICE shuts down. At this point EV is limited to 10 mpg but if I do not push the EV button but instead use a light foot to keep the power bar in the lower 1/2 then I can baby the speed up to 42mph with no ICE. If I need to accelerate the ICE will come back on and stay on until the ICE comes up to running temp.

    When you are pushing for 99.9mpg the limiting factor tends to be ICE temp. I find that the ICE will cool off from not running and then EV will be limited again. Also, anytime you turn the car off and back on, like a quick stop at a store, you will need to have the ICE go through warm-up again.

    A ScanGauge is really needed so that you can see ICE temp and RPM and Current into/outof the Prius HV Battery.

    Of course the Toyota PHEV Prius will not have these issues because they will change the computer programming to correct for the PHEV assist. Note that Enginer does not do anything to change or spoof the Prius computer programming.

    Thanks,
    Dan
    1 person likes this.
  7. TonyPSchaefer

    TonyPSchaefer Your Friendly Moderator Staff Member

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    Actually, a full, three-hour charge nets 14 miles by default (picture). Your mileage may vary. I was able to eek out around 16 miles of EV three times on my morning commute.

    [​IMG]

    Adric, check this thread and the accompanying thread. You will get some answers and come up with new questions.
    http://priuschat.com/forums/freds-house-pancakes/82421-my-real-world-experience-phv.html
    http://priuschat.com/forums/prius-hybrid-news/82492-my-real-world-experience-phv-blog.html
  8. wick1ert

    wick1ert Senior Member

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    I'd still take 80 mpg. I don't hypermile, although I will tend to coast to lights and stuff. I'm not an aggressive driver, so I'd consider that I fall in the middle somewhere. The last time I hear from Patrick (the installer in eastern PA), he said something about July. This was over a month ago, but I think maybe he's been out of town.

    My thinking for the Enginer in a PHV Prius, would be the ability on a stop-and-go drive to help keep the plug-in packs topped up. Depending on the thru-put power requirements, it may be able to successfully double your EV range (of course, depending on commute type). I was thinking that potentially from a cost-benefit standpoint, I'd expect Enginer to be quite a bit cheaper but its limitations may be the downfall for adding to a PHV. Something we will have surely have to get additional information and testing on.
  9. linuxpenguin

    linuxpenguin Active Member

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    Just FYI, there are other after market Prius conversion systems coming relatively soon to the market for the Gen3 model Prius with significantly larger ranges. I agree that Toyota's PHV is a step in the right direction, but 13 (EDIT: sorry--14) miles is a bit disappointing.

    EV WORLD CURRENTS: PICC's 40-Mile Plug-In Prius

    Andrew
  10. adric22

    adric22 Ev and Hybrid Enthusiast

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    Now that is amazing. I don't know what the kit would cost, but lets imagine in is under $10,000. (which I think is reasonable) then you could buy a used 2010 prius for under $20,000 and then add the kit. Now you'd have a vehicle that easily competes with the Chevy volt, but only costs $30,000. Not to mention, the Volt will be very hard to get since they are making so few of them.

    Right now I'm holding out for the Nissan Leaf. But if such an offering were made available to me today that would get me 30 miles or more pure-EV mode with highway speed capability, I'd probably jump on it. Since my daily commute is 12 miles, and most of our family trips into town are under 30 miles, we could essentially go gas-free immediately with such a kit.
  11. Colonel Ronson

    Colonel Ronson New Member

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    i would not add an aftermarket PHV to my prius. i'd rather not void the warranty. the PHV Prius from toyota will be official, you'll get OEM support, OEM reliability, and you probably won't have to pay $10,000 extra to rip out perfectly good batteries and install new ones, while eliminating any cargo space you might've had.
  12. andino

    andino Active Member

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    I wonder what the pricing will be on that kit. Awesome results for sure!
  13. dan2l

    dan2l 2014 Prius v wagon

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    I would bet that it will be closer to $15,000 than $10,000. I also expect the Toyota and Nisan and Chevy will all be at least $15,000 additional over a stock version those cars. It won't be priced and levels lower than this because there are a lot of people that will pay for the new technology. Maybe in 2 or 3 years the price will come down to a reasonable amount.

    Thanks,
    Dan
  14. adric22

    adric22 Ev and Hybrid Enthusiast

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    yes, but the advantage of the do-it-yourself version is that you can start with a used version of the car. That will save you $5,000 to $10,000 right from the start.
  15. Flaninacupboard

    Flaninacupboard Senior Member

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    That kit looks great, but i don't think they have a dealer in the uk, and the price is going to be pretty high i think. I'm happy to have a play with the cheaper Enginer kit, but as soon as i can get hold of an OEM car (be it Ampera, Prius PHEV, or some BEV with enough range) i eill get one of them instead.
  16. ken1784

    ken1784 SuperMID designer

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    Please be aware the 14 miles EV range is for the current field testing Prius PHV.
    No one knows the EV range for the consumer version yet.
    Rumors said Toyota will offer various EV range options for the consumer version Prius PHV.
    I think it is too early to discuss any detail now.

    Ken@Japan
  17. efusco

    efusco Troll Slayer Staff Member

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    Excellent points Ken...
    And Toyota has to make business decisions about what people will actually spend in a mass market while still being profitable. It would be great to have a 40 mile EV range, but at what cost?

    I do hope they offer a range of ranges...those who want 10 can buy 10, those who want 20-20, and maybe some 30s...40 seems unlikely, IMO, in the current generation Prius. The 13 mile pack takes up the entire storage area already. While a more efficient and slightly large design could give a solid and reliable 30, I just don't see 40 happening without a major battery breakthrough--and even if that happens it'll never make it through Toyota's rigorous testing before the Gen IV Prius comes out.
  18. linuxpenguin

    linuxpenguin Active Member

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    It seems to me that the limiting factor is the battery size of the selected LiFEPO4 chemistry. I don't see how they could cram any more range into it than they already have (given that there already is no spare tire and the batteries still protrude ever so slightly in to the trunk space). We'll see what they come up with...

    Andrew
  19. HTMLSpinnr

    HTMLSpinnr Moderator Staff Member

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    Given battery pricing today, I'd be hard pressed to estimate that a PHV could cost less from OEM.

    Also, the field tested PHV chews up ALL of the lower cargo area - there's no spare. The floor is also 2-3" higher than a stock Prius.
  20. HTMLSpinnr

    HTMLSpinnr Moderator Staff Member

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    Are we certain that's the chemistry in use?
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