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Replace HV Battery: Toyota vs Re-InVolt

Discussion in 'Generation 1 Prius Discussion' started by tnt01prius, Oct 18, 2011.

  1. tnt01prius

    tnt01prius Member

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    Fellow Chatters - It's decision time for me- I would appreciate your inputs.
    01 Prius, 110K miles, HV battery failure warning on MFD, ICE revs after several minutes of driving, no power to drive, shutting off ignition and restarting corrects problem for a time. HV battery fan runs at high speed at times. Codes: 3000, 3006, 3012, 3016, 3022, 3024. 12V battery tested weak as well.

    Here are my options that I'm aware of:
    Local Toyota dealer quote:
    New HV battery (1yr warranty) $2299., $180. tax, labor $440. (4hrs) = TL $2919.
    HV battery ECU $1207., labor $0. (if installed with battery, otherwise plus $440)

    I want to replace the HV battery myself, so...............
    Re-InVolt quote:
    Refurb. HV battery (complete w/ Gen II modules and ECU) (1yr warranty) $1675., shipping $175. (core shipping add $175) = TL $2025.

    I'm leaning away from a new battery from Toyota because they’re Gen I type and more of the same. Local Toyota dealership service manager has been excellent to work with, but it still looks like a money pit. So, what about Re-InVolt? It has a 1yr warranty, but I've not seen evidence that Re-InVolt is any more reliable.

    I'm aware that any battery I purchase is subjected to many variables that effect it's life expectancy. So, do I just go for it? Am I missing something?

    What was your experience with either option?
     
  2. badboy99

    badboy99 Member

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    Contact Battery Boy in Petaluma California

    1st generation pack $600 + shipping (6 month warranty)
    2nd Generation cells in a first gen case 1400 + shipping (12 month warranty )

    Good guy sells, to a local hybrid shop

    Those prices are off of memory.
     
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  3. fotomoto

    fotomoto Senior Member

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    I would replace this first (you're going to need to anyway) and see what happens.
     
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  4. seilerts

    seilerts Battery Curmudgeon

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    It is unlikely that you need the ECU. If you did, get salvage for $100+/-.

    The battery from Champion is likely new old stock. Age is definitely a factor. But usage is a factor too, which the ReInvolt battery will have. On the other hand, we have year to hear of a ReInvolt battery going bad. Yet another consideration is that we have not heard of anyone getting a mail order battery from a Toyota dealer and your experience would be valuable information.
     
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  5. jdenenberg

    jdenenberg EE Professor

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    The reinvolt battery for my Gen2 came with its own working ECU. Check with them if the same is true for the Gen1. That made the install easier since it was a drop-in and connect.

    JeffD
     
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  6. sghioto

    sghioto Junior Member

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    I recently replaced a Gen1 battery (with 195,000 miles on it) with a ReInvolt unit myself.
    The local Toyota dealer wanted 3100 dollars for the job and it would come with the same warranty as the ReInvolt.
    The ReInvolt includes the ECU with the Gen1 rebuilds as well.
    It's a fairly easy job to disconnect the wiring and remove the associated hardware. Took me a little over two hours to do the whole job.
    Good Luck
    Steve G.
     
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  7. OMARYMONA

    OMARYMONA New Member

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    If u interested i am a pruis battery tech in ill i do this job also if u want to use gen 1 cell are way cheaper and if u want to get battery cell for gen 1 i sell them so u do the job your self of if u want to get my service 773-716-7574 ***i am located in illinois*** if you interested call me my name is omar
     
  8. DetPrius

    DetPrius Active Member

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    I was thinking the same thing fotomoto said.
     
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  9. tnt01prius

    tnt01prius Member

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    Thanks for your input. You are correct that Champion doesn't ship batteries. I stand corrected and have updated my original post. Still checking on other options. Swapping the 12 volt battery out first. Leaning toward Optima D51R Yellow Top (3yr replacement warranty) $160. (shipped) vs Panasonic from Toyota (1yr replacement warranty) TL=$192. I intend to call eLearnAide about their return policy before ordering. Optima D51R 8073-167 yellow top Battery
     
  10. tnt01prius

    tnt01prius Member

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    Concerning the ReInVolt: If I install the ReInVolt battery complete with the ECU, I understand I will need to at least clear the old codes, but should I expect the car to just start up and accept the new parts or should I expect issues to be resolved like more codes due to communications between ECUs?
     
  11. seilerts

    seilerts Battery Curmudgeon

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    If you do it right, it should start right up without codes, since the 12V is disconnected. Things get dicey only when you replace ECUs up front, such as immobilizer or HV ECU (not the same as HV Battery ECU). Anyway, you should not have any problems.
     
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  12. tnt01prius

    tnt01prius Member

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    Thanks for your help. I installed Optima D51R 12V battery from eLearnAide. HV traction battery problems still exist. Upon starting the SOC display shows HV battery at lowest level, then quickly becomes full and drops down again fairly quickly indicating failure as stated in #1, it needs replaced or refurbished. I intend to upgrade it with Gen 2 modules. Updates to come.
     
  13. tnt01prius

    tnt01prius Member

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    After reading up on classic cell modules and seeing the condition of those in my 11 yr old 01, I decided to repopulate my classic pack with cell mods from 2010 salvage. Cleaning the bus strips and terminal nuts was rather tedious, but your recommendations were helpful. Installed the pack and started the car. It ran smooth with no MIL for a few minutes then ICE began to run rough, white vapor came from the exhaust and the ICE died. Restarted and it ran okay for a few minutes until I powered it off. I connected an OBDII and read DTC P3190 seemingly not related to the traction battery, which SOC varied from 1/2 - 3/4. I cleared the code, restarted and drove about 5 miles before CEL, triangle and right side warning indicator appeared and experienced loss of power as was stated originally. Then I scanned DTCs:
    P3190
    P0171 sys too lean bank 1
    P0130 O2 sensor circuit malf. bank 1, sensor 1
    P0133 O2 sensor circuit slow response bank1 sensor 1

    Odd that these DTC's weren't read previously as originally stated. There are still no HV battery related DTCs. First glance at the MAF appears dull/dark. Throttle body butterfly looks mostly clean. Air box is clean. The car has been mostly idle the past 6 weeks or so, but driven occasionally until HV batt removal. No sign of critters except there appears to be small bits of foam laying in the cabin filter, but no other signs so far.

    I will clean the TB and MAF and check the airbox seal to the TB. Maybe that will do it. I didn't find much info on the P0130, P0133 codes and none on the DTC chart. Any help there?
     
  14. seilerts

    seilerts Battery Curmudgeon

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    Car sat too long without running, might have had some condensation inside, that would explain the 3190, which then causes the 0171, 0130, and 0133. Might be bad gas too. As well, there was a tech that said sometimes you need to prop the butterfly open with a small screwdriver to make the idle position relearn.
     
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  15. tnt01prius

    tnt01prius Member

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    My how things change. The codes for today are: P0171 sys too lean bank 01 and P1436. This is after 22 mile drive check eng. light ON, no others. Prior to drive I cleaned the TB and MAF with required cleaners. K&N air filter is clean, not over oiled. Spark plugs (25K miles on them) not fouled, but some condensation in No.1 well removed. Throttle plate moves freely. Ensured air box clamp is tight to TB. HV batt SOC display is full. MPG as usual. 12V batt is new.

    P0171 freeze frame includes: f"uel system 1 CLSD"
    Status: All reading Ready, except "Evap System Not Ready"

    Patrick Wong states: [FONT=&quot]DTC P0171[/FONT][FONT=&quot] means that the system is running lean. Possible problem areas include a leak in the air induction system downstream from the mass air flow sensor (allowing unmetered air to enter the system), a faulty MAF sensor, the engine coolant temp sensor, fuel line pressure, a leak in the exhaust system, the upstream O2 sensor, and the PCV valve and connections.

    P1436: originally dealer tech stated "[/FONT][FONT=&quot]actuator in exhaust not working. Replace exhaust w/ cat. converter" Q: Isn't the actuator a common problem? Are there instructions how to inspect and free up actuator? [/FONT]

    Update: P1436 is the only code remaining. There have been no issues with the re-populated HV battery. Actually, it holds charge better than my 05 and is usually fully charged.
     
  16. seilerts

    seilerts Battery Curmudgeon

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    The EVAP not ready just means that you need to complete an OBD trip -- 10 minutes at 55 mph or some such.

    Hmmm...I would say that P0171 is usually caused by a vac leak at the intake, but then again, if there is a known problem with the exhaust, then that should be addressed first, since an exhaust leak can also mimic a lean burn situation, but then again, you have a K&N intake, which would be the first thing that a technician would take out in troubleshooting.

    The accursed HCAC code P1436, as far as I know, does not have an easy solution. You can try to tear things apart, apply solvent to the valve to free it, and find some superultra high temp grease to keep it moving. See http://priuschat.com/forums/generation-1-prius-discussion/88247-p1436-revisited.html Or else pay $1200 for a new cat.
     
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  17. tnt01prius

    tnt01prius Member

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    Update. I read the suggested thread way back when, but no solution there. I too have lubed the valve and if moves freely, but the code returns. I've ignored the CEL 'cause the car runs fine and mpg is good. Are you aware of a reason/consequence why I shouldn't ignore the error code P1436?

    Update 18 months later: Moved to AZ, car runs great, check engine light still on, city mpg now in mid 30s in AZ summer with heavy A/C use. I plan to try using ZEP on the actuator valve so I can hopefully get rid of CE light and pass emissions.
     
  18. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Do you live in a state that does a vehicle inspection including a "Check Engine Light" inspection and code readout? If not, the only risk is a second fault would be masked by the existing light.

    If a second fault should occur, early detection and correction might avoid it becoming a 'towed from the side of the road' problem.

    GOOD LUCK!
    Bob Wilson
     
  19. tnt01prius

    tnt01prius Member

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    Thanks Bob. I meant to say we have no inspection here. Since CELs are notorius for illuminating for seemingly insignificant things (i.e. loose gas cap), I've lost focus of their pupose (my bad) and it was so easy to ignore this issue.
    I will try to lube the valve and consider replacing parts now that there has been some time (7000miles) since I've invested/replaced cell modules in the HV battery pack and all is well there.

    BTW, I looked at your mpg chart and am curious what it takes to achieve +50. I drive conservatively, accellerate softly (except when passing) and coast as much as possible (ticking off the SUV and pickup drivers). I never see more than about avg. 45mpt. Suggestions? A good thread? Are you running on Eco tires? I haven't yet. Have tried Firestone FR710 and currently Cooper Lifeliner GLS - both good winter traction (important here).
     
  20. usnavystgc

    usnavystgc Die Hard DIYer and Ebike enthusiast.

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    50+mpgs on a Gen I is more for serious city drivers. I have found that accelerating softly does not encourage increased mpg's. I say get to cruising speed quick and spend as much time there as possible. My experience is a Gen I will easily get 60-75 mpg's (instantaneous reading) when cruising @38-45 mph with the ICE on. The more time you can spend at cruising speed, the higher your mpgs will go. Also, if you can get your hands on an ECT spoofer (ccdisce is the source), that will greatly help a Gen I. Beyond that, its tire pressure, rolling resistance, pulse and glide and other hypermiling techniques. I am able to exceed 50 mpgs in the city in the summer in my Gen I but not on the hwy and not in the winter (I haven't driven in the winter with my ECT spoofer though)

    Bob,
    Are you running an ECT spoofer on your Gen I?