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Replacing Gen 2 Front Seat - I Offer Some Side Airbag Clarification

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Accessories & Modifications' started by PaulRivers, May 10, 2010.

  1. PaulRivers

    PaulRivers Member

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    Replacing Prius Front Seat - Side Airbag Clarification (Gen 2)

    I have been yet another unfortunate person who purchased a Gen II Prius, only to find the front seats extremely, extremely uncomfortable and painful.

    So I've been researching my options - one suggested option is completely replacing the front seat with an aftermarket one, like a Recaro seat, which evidentally some people have done.

    One thing that was repeated a lot, and concerned me, was that the side airbag is mounted in the side of the seat - if you replace the seat, you lose the side airbag. When I called Recaro (well, actually a distributor of theirs) they claimed that the bigger side bolsters on the side mean you don't need to the side airbag as much so "it functions normally". Frankly, I felt kind like "Wth are you talking about? If the airbag is no longer in the car, it's not going to "function normally".

    The guy finally clarified that there's 2 side airbags - one in the seat itself, one that's the side curtain airbag in the frame of the car. I took a look at the iihs crash test pic, and it appears that he might be right -

    [​IMG]

    I appears that there's 2 airbags - one that comes out of the seat by your shoulder (the smaller, slightly more pinkish one that's kinda attached to the seat), and the other (the side curtain airbag) that drops from the ceiling and protects your head.

    While I'm not saying that a seat with good side bolsters is actually as good as the built in airbag (well I have no idea), at least the idea seems like it might make *some* sense.

    And being that I was seriously contemplating replacing the seat despite losing the side airbags (I started to think about it - I've never been hit from the side in my entire time driving, none of my other cars had side airbags, and I'd lose about $4k trading my car and I have no idea what I'd buy instead, as I'm otherwise pretty happy with the car...) it's kind of a relief to know that I wouldn't completely be losing the side airbags.

    I just thought this info might be useful for anyone else contemplating the same thing.

    P.S. Recaro has a picture of a seat on their website with a side airbag built in. I forgot to mention that I asked about it specifically while I was on the phone - the guy I talked to said they do make one, but they don't sell it in the US, they only sell it elsewhere (he specifically mentioned Germany) because liability laws over there are different than here in the US.
     
  2. dogfriend

    dogfriend Human - Animal Hybrid

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    The side curtain airbags (the ones mounted above the doors that deploy downward) are meant to protect your head in a side impact. The seat mounted airbags are meant to protect your torso in a side impact.

    I believe there are aftermarket seats available equipped with side airbags, but they are expensive.
     
  3. a_gray_prius

    a_gray_prius Rare Non-Old-Blowhard Priuschat Member

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    Re: Replacing Prius Front Seat - Side Airbag Clarification (Gen 2)

    If it makes you feel any better, the increased side bolstering in the seats of the CSL version of the BMW M3 was also seen as a supplement to the removed standard side airbag.
     
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  4. PaulRivers

    PaulRivers Member

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    If you're interested, I added a "P.S." section about seats with a side airbag to my original comment.
     
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  5. cycledrum

    cycledrum PSOCSOASP

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    The service manager at Sid's Custom Upholstery in Palo Alto, CA is named Hugo Sanchez ...

    he told me they take the OEM airbag and somehow mount it to the side of a Recaro seat when putting one in a Gen2 Prius.

    FYI, the Recaro Specialist M model is usually the one considered as a replacement in a Prius as it is a touring type of seat and cost ~ $1k per seat (not including installation costs. I was quoted $1,700 for install of one seat).
     
  6. cycledrum

    cycledrum PSOCSOASP

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    And I agree with you about the 'driver's seat' on the Gen2 Prius although I like to refer to the situation as ....

    'seating' which to me refers to the seat, adjustments available, steering wheel, control pedal placement, etc... all those things.

    Here's a short list of IMO problems with Gen2 seating ...

    1) Seat foam is very narrow between bottom bolsters and foam is overly firm

    2) Seat bottom is awfully short and doesn't have much 'lip' for thigh support

    3) Seat bottom is fixed 2" up guaranteeing many taller drivers have top of windshield blocking view.

    4) Front seat travel limited while my 36" inseam legs have over 3" clearance while sitting in back seat - ridiculous.

    5) virtually no lumbar support

    6) Steering wheel does not telescope and is mounted close to dash in relation to control pedals.

    7) Headrests are mounted too far back behind my head and seems likely to allow whiplash in rear end collision

    8) Brake pedal unusually close in relation to gas pedal giving effect of gas pedal sort of far away, brake pedal too close

    ---------------

    I bet the number of driver's that complain about the driver's seating in their Honda Civic Hybrid is very few compared to the 2nd Gen Prius.
     
  7. cycledrum

    cycledrum PSOCSOASP

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    And not that I have nothing else to do but sit around and complain about the 2nd Gen Prius seat, but

    I have spent well over $1,200, 2 seat modifications, 1 major custom seat build, removal of OEM seat, install of modded seat maybe 12 times so far, countless hours on seat mods (something well over 100 man-hours) ...

    Car purchase price of $27,574 + TTL for $30.4k OTD cost in Aug 2008

    current resale likely would bring no more than $20k in private sale, $18k or less on trade in

    and, have $480 of Corolla seat foam and fabric on order which should give more thigh support on custom seat.

    So, things haven't worked out so well.

    As least the car is reliable though. That would be the straw that broke it if wasn't reliable.
     
  8. cycledrum

    cycledrum PSOCSOASP

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    Anyrate, about the seat airbag, it is the black thing hanging on seatback in this pic. The airbag explodes out through a slit in the foam and punches through the fabric. If you feel side of seat, you can feel the slit in the foam.

    IM002541.jpg

    btw, above is a beloved Prius driver's seat frame. I took the good parts of this used one and junked the rest of it.

    IM002548.jpg

    Above are completely stripped '06 Prius and '06 Corolla driver's seat frames ready for making a Frankenstein seat. Good times, I mean, tough times it was.
     
  9. cycledrum

    cycledrum PSOCSOASP

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    If you talk further with a shop about replacing your driver's seat, I'd be sort of curious to know how they deal with your seat belt latch and seat position sensor electrical during the install.

    Under your seat, you will find 3 connectors -

    * Yellow connector is your airbag connector. That wire goes to the airbag.

    * The big connector in the middle is wired to both the seat position sensor (on left bottom frame of seat) and the seatbelt latch which has a swith built into it (you know, to tell if seatbelt latched or not, the idiot light).

    * small connector also wired into SPS and belt latch.
     
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  10. cycledrum

    cycledrum PSOCSOASP

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    I chose not to go with an aftermaket seat, and this is just me, because I had some concern that it may be difficult to put the car back to stock form when ready to sell it (this may or may not be the case, don't know)

    Also, like said, was quoted $1,700 for a Recaro install and ...

    found out height adjustment could only be accomplished by switching bolts underneath the seat (not easy). This would make it difficult for anyone else much shorter to jump in the car and be able to drive it.

    Since no telescopic steering wheel offered in Gen2 Prius, I thought no reason trying to get great ergos with expensive Recaro, because, for me, not possible.

    What else ... I didn't like idea of airbag somehow mounted external on Recaro (I'm pretty sure that's what he was suggesting, I didn't get into too serious of talks about a Recaro).

    I didn't want a very non-OEM looking seat in my car.

    In a Recaro Specialist M seat, there is no way to take a nap with seatback folded flat. bottom and seatback become split level, you couldn't nap like that.

    I didn't want a shop futzing around with my car again. I took control in building my own seat.

    That's just me though. Others have replaced the seat(s).
     
  11. cycledrum

    cycledrum PSOCSOASP

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    All that said, I've rented 2010 Prius' 5 times and the driver's seating is greatly improved - legroom, height adjustment, seat bottom very good for smaller car, telescopic wheel ...

    it really is a good seat except could use a skosh more wheel telescope and for some, more lumbar support in II, III
     
  12. cycledrum

    cycledrum PSOCSOASP

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    Here's some food for thought about replacing front Prius seat(s) -


    * The 2008 and earlier Corolla S models have an airbag mounted in side of front seat. I saw an 07/08 Corolla S from outside yesterday, it had the SRS airbag label on driver's seatback.

    * I don't know if any Corolla CE or LE models had the airbag, but 2005 - 2008 would be the years to target for all Corollas to replace an 05 - 09 Prius seat.

    * The 05 - 08 Corolla seat is height adjustable and IMO, the seat bottom is much better than the 04 - 09 Prius. Corolla seatback might also be better as it has a more squared shape and might be more supportive for shoulders.

    * I don't know if the airbag electrical / trigger voltage is the same for Prius and Corolla

    * Seat position sensor and seatbelt latch wiring could easily be moved from the Prius to Corolla frame if necessary

    * Would only need any used Prius airbag seat for its mount feet, wiring, put on Corolla seat to try in Prius at own risk.

    * Store original Prius seat(s) until you sell the car.
     
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  13. PaulRivers

    PaulRivers Member

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    Thanks for the added info. I found someone through Recaro who supposedly knows the info I'd need to move the sensor and everything.

    However - *sigh* - they claim that the seat wouldn't be any lower than the existing seat, which is half of the reason to replace it. They also said that replacing the drivers seat is an hour or two of work (if I remember right), but it's 8 hours of work to replace the passenger seat, including removing parts from the original passenger seat - and 8 hours was the quote for someone experienced who had already done it several times.

    I appreciate all the info, but I don't have a welding torch, etc to do all the work of putting a Corolla seat in. Not to mention actually finding a Corrola seat...sounds like a project that could go on and on for months trying to track one down.

    Again, I appreciate your comments. If you have any thoughts feel free to post. I'm getting pretty frustated - not sure if I'm going to replace the seat, or just sell the whole piece of crap car.
     
  14. cycledrum

    cycledrum PSOCSOASP

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    I understand you live in MN, and there may not be a Recaro dealer nearby, but that is who you need to find - an authorized dealer / installation shop that can actually get Recaro seats and parts in a timely manner and someone who's done the work before.

    A Recaro seat will be quite a bit lower than your stock driver's seat.

    I personally wouldn't mess with the passenger's seat - there's an occupant detection ECU built into the seat. The electrical is more complicated than the driver's seat. Best to leave it alone, I think.

    -----------------------------

    When I drive in my car now, it boggles my mind why Toyota could not put in a seat as good as I have now. They could have copied the Corolla seat and made most driver's much happier.

    Prius price started at $22k and the driver's seat did not even match a $15k Corolla. Ridiculous.

    I can understand how they needed to get the 2nd Gen car out quick in 2004 to compete, but they carried on with the car, never upgrading the seat for 6 years. 2006 was a year of many upgrades in the Prius, yet they did nothing for the driver's seat which was complained about in 2004/05. People were complaining, but obviously not nearly enough.

    The only small hybrid 4 seat hatchback in the world from 2004 - May 2009, and one either fit the car or they didn't- many smart people walked away and didn't buy one.

    Some will disagree, but the 2nd Gen Prius seats were set up for driver's about 5'9" or less. Sure, there's some 6'4" drivers that dig there Gen2, to each their own.
     
  15. cycledrum

    cycledrum PSOCSOASP

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    Been to the fix it or sell it point a couple times I have.

    How tall are you?

    By any chance is it the seat bottom that is bothering you the most? No thigh support, seat feels narrow and awkward?

    Does it seem like you're looking down over the hood too much, and often cannot see a traffic light when stopped?

    If so, getting lower with the right seat bottom contour and tilt will fix up most of the problems. Reach to the steering wheel is not too bad when lower in the car.

    Sitting high in the car as a tall person with long legs is what really messes things up.

    There are tall people hoping to get relief with extension brackets and such. Been there, done that. It's getting the seat bottom lower to the floorboard that fixes the root of seat problem for tall people (6ft+) in this car. Period.
     
  16. PaulRivers

    PaulRivers Member

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    Agree. It's the hardest foam I've seen on a seat. Foam in the 2010 model (base one at least) isn't any better. It's also right on the edge (though just barely ok) of being to narrow for me.

    I agree about it being short, but since it's short I don't know that having extra lip in the middle of my thigh would be a good thing.

    Yeah. I can't believe those idiots couldn't fix this in all the years they made the car. As someone (maybe you) said - they did it in frickin' Corolla seats, what kind of crack are they smoking?

    It's not a problem for me while driving (long torso, shorter legs) but it was a problem for my friend sitting in the passenger seat. It is rediculous though - I'd like to be able to use that space in the back for more legroom if I want for the 99% of the time there's no one in the back seat, thanks.

    Actually, I disagree with you here. My 2009 at least has a curve for "lumbar support" in the drivers seat. No lumbar support in the passenger seat.

    In a recent trip where I was able to switch off driving with someone, I found this made the passenger seat more comfortable. It's hard to say for sure as you don't have to grab the steering wheel as a passenger, but I actually found a comfortable position in the passenger seat.

    Actually, that led me to figure out how to sit in the drivers seat without nearly as much pain. Basically, I hunch my upper back forward a little and keep the rest of my back completely straight and supported by my back muscles, not relying on the seat for much support. I think some of exercise of the "core" muscles helps.

    Shouldn't have to do exercises to sit in a car comfortably, though.

    Yeah. I've been trying to figure this one out - my old car didn't have a telescoping steering wheel and it was fine.

    I think they put the dash lower and farther away from you than in a regular sedan, and that contributes to the lack of telescoping steering being a big issue.

    I disagree with you here. One of my favorite things about the 2009 Prius was that the headrests weren't the new-style stab-you-in-the-back-of-the-head-constantly ones.

    I drove a Toyota RAV4 for an entire week a couple of years ago (rental) and no matter what I did, never quite got comfortable with the headrest. It was always there, I was always aware of it, pushing against the back of my head, keeping my head farther forward than was comfortable.

    Haven't noticed that.

    ---------------

    Civic hybrid? Yes, probably. My friend has one of the older body style ones (the less sleek, but more open style) and I've *never* had an issue with the seats in it.

    I don't know about the latest Honda Insight, though. I didn't even test drive one because it got such universally terrible reviews on everything about it. But when I saw one in a dealership, it looked like headroom in general might be an issue, even with a better more adjustable seat.
     
  17. PaulRivers

    PaulRivers Member

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    I sat in one in a dealer recently when I went in to get my plates.

    I agree that things like height adjustment and being designed for someone taller and wider was definitely better.

    But it still has the rock-hard foam in it, though. And as you mentioned, even telescoped all the way out the steering wheel still felt like it might be a little to far away. It also had a pretty "cheap and crappy" feel to it, though I'm not saying that's worse than the Gen II seats.

    I do not know, maybe I'll try renting a Gen III one at one point or something just to make sure. But I just didn't like it's more enclosed, boxy, cavelike feel on the inside. I'm not a huge fan of the exterior styling, but I could live with it easy. It's the interior that gets me.

    Some people have said the Gen II Prius is a "bubble", a "go kart", it's "to cutesy". With the Gen II, I can see what they're saying but it's fine. I laugh it, I refer to the car as my "go kart", I always think of it in a fun, happy way.

    But the Gen III takes those attributes and makes them moreso. While the visibility out of the Gen II Prius is decent but not great, they went and made it worse in the Gen III. Like, you could actually see out the drivers side sail window in the Gen II. Not so in the Gen III. The blind spot for the rear pillars is also noticeably bigger and wider. And while the Gen II has a mix of "bubble" and "airy, open" feel to it, the smaller windows and sweeping center console thing remove the "airy, open" feel and just leave the "bubble" feeling.

    I hear that Hyundai may be coming out with a Prius competitor, and also that Honda plans to revamp it's Insight substantially.

    Just my thoughts.
     
  18. PaulRivers

    PaulRivers Member

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    They could have copied the Corolla seat and made most driver's much happier.

    I couldn't possibly agree more. It really pisses me off. The only thing that ticks me off more was that I didn't realize how uncomfortable the seat when I test rode the car.

    It just wasn't designed with someone 6"0 or taller in mind. From the height of the front seats, to the curving of the fronts seats, to the headroom in the back (though that's a common thing with other cars).

    I feel like I have a right to say this being that I own one - that front seat is a piece of crap.
     
  19. PaulRivers

    PaulRivers Member

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    I'm 6"0. I have a longer-than-average torso, also leads to shorter than average legs. Not anything I ever noticed while standing next to anyone or anything, but way before the Prius I noticed that my friends who were also 6"0 could sit in the back seat of cars fine, while I (in the seat next to them) would hit my head on the ceiling and be pretty cramped.

    The seat bottom doesn't seem great, but it's not my problem. My problem is that my lower back gets...compressed? Heck, I don't know, I just know my lower back would hurt like hell (like the spine specifically) after riding in the car. As I mentioned, I've figured out a specific way to sit in the seat with the upper part of my back bent forward and the rest of my back being completely straight and supported entirely by my back muscles. Or at least that's the best I can describe it. A lot less "completely painful", but it's certainly not "comfortable" either.

    Other issues are strange annoying strains in my neck and shoulders. Those aren't as bad, and I think are combination of the high seat (always trying to duck to look under the mirror), and the far-away position of the steering wheel. (I did flip the mirror, as well as pushing it up. However, I found that with it completely out of my way I couldn't actually see out the back of the vehicle, the roofline in the back is to low, so I had to lower it back down a little).

    I don't feel like I'm looking over the hood to much, but I do feel like I'm way to high in the car. In fact, some random bum on a corner while I was waiting at a stop sign even said I looked to tall for my car. Kinda random. When I was parked in front of a store with glass, I could see my reflection and that's how I looked - like I was slammed into a to-small car.

    No one sitting next to me in the car has ever really commented though, and I don't feel like it's a problem there. (And believe me, if I looked silly several of my friends would be more than happy to point it out.)

    I'm definitely having trouble seeing the upper stoplights at a stop. Just today I was in the left turn lane, looking at the lower light. It turned green, I figured I would have to wait for the oncoming cars to go through. They all stopped. I then ducked my head down to look at the other lights and realized the left turn light was on for me. Couldn't see it just sitting at the light though.

    You've found that the reach to the steering wheel is better with a lower seat?
     
  20. kljaja

    kljaja New Member

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    I have the same problem!
    I even got bad back due to uncomfortable prius seat.

    I'm 6'3" and have all the same issues as you!

    Love the car otherwise.