If you have the magazine the next article after the Hybrid one is on the new Passat. For grins, compare the TCH performance to the Passat performance.

Doesn't look like there are going to be any performance issues that can be argued as a 'compromise'. The TCH appears to go head to head very well in the segment. Interesting note, the F/R weight distribution on the TCH is better than the standard Camry.

The gripe of the day seems to be that it gives up 2 Cubic Feet of trunk space to the stock Camry, which, of course, renders it totally unacceptable. That's the best arguement I've seen against it.

Also, notice that they guessed on the TCH price. They over-estimated it by about $4K which I suspect is going to make the TCH case even more compelling.

It's going to be interesting.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tideland Prius @ Mar 31 2006, 01:42 AM) [snapback]232813[/snapback]</div>

I think they have the numbers backwards.. the pacific coast hwy should be rush hour.. and visa versa..

Scott

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(p626808 @ Mar 31 2006, 10:40 AM) [snapback]232914[/snapback]</div>

No, the car would get bad mileage in rush hour if they don't accelerate gently enough to remain in EV mode, and keep in mind the car is over 700 lbs heavier than a Prius, so it's even more likely to jump into ICE mode. 32.3 mpg in rush hour is still quite good, and there's no way a highway drive at a fixed speed would get 32 mpg. Then again, I don't know how they managed 43 mpg in the Civic Hybrid in rush-hour traffic; I get 35 if I'm being careful. Maybe their rush-hour traffic isn't actually stop-and-go.

Well Road & Track's results are much much better than I expected, both for acceleration (I thought it was supposed to be 8.9 seconds, not 7.3...?) and mileage. 38 mpg on "high-speed" highway and over mountains? Awesome, though it is suspiciously higher than anyone else's results. Most people average 31 mpg, though admittedly that probably includes their acceleration runs.

Actually one reason the stronger performance, both in acceleration and in mileage for this Road and Track tested Camry Hybrid MIGHT be that it was a more basic model (without moonroof, etc.). This would make it lighter by at least some pounds and thus perhaps "faster."

However I think it was Car and Driver tested the Camry Hybrid and got 7.9 sec. 0-60, and about 31.x overall mpg. Not as fast and not as impressive in mileage, but still....very good, and theirs was a fully loaded model.

So....we will have to wait and see what the production versions actually give us. It should not be too long, as the local dealer in Sacramento now has the full pricing details, and thus it is likely that real "cars-to-sell" will be arriving at the forecourts in another couple of weeks....or so.

George
2006 Prius with Package 8
2007 "loaded" Camry Hybrid "on order"

I like it. very impressive.

Yes, I just got the issue in the mail. It was nice to finally se a direct comparison of the gas version vs. the hybrid version.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Potential Buyer @ Mar 31 2006, 01:57 PM) [snapback]233098[/snapback]</div>

The car may be heavier, but the batteries have more capacity (more packs), and the motors are much more powerful by 2 generations compared to a Prius so the weight issue is probably moot.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(NuShrike @ Apr 6 2006, 02:51 AM) [snapback]235752[/snapback]</div>

That energy still has to come from somewhere. In fact I think this is why Toyota claims 8.9 second 0-60 and R&T got 7.3 -- it probably only gets 7.3 when the battery is full and can take as long as 8.9 seconds when its charge is lower, is my guess. C&D measured 7.9 seconds so the battery was probably mostly full when they did it. Of course this means the battery's entire usable charge must be being used up when flooring it from a stop.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tideland Prius @ Mar 31 2006, 01:42 AM) [snapback]232813[/snapback]</div>

Also if you compare the Specs of the Prius and the Camry Hybrid, you will find that the CH has a 147 HP 2.4L 4C, and MGS combinded KW of 105 (almost 140 HP) as well. So if you have a good size Battery like the CH has or the HyHi, then you can let the MGS do a lot more work doing the driving while the ICE just idles and provides charge for the Battery as needed. Which in it self equates to better MPG, it is just a question of how the ECU manages the load. Also I should mention that the tester are "seasoned" Hybrid drivers them self, so they have some Hybrid driving techniquics availiable too.

Did you know that if you apply brakes - for regen - to first apply them very slow / light to offset the caturing threshold, until the system is ready to "suck" it all up and then increasingly apply more break force to have the MGS work at their highest efficiency?

I think that is so cool....

Finally we have not just the GAS Pedal to drive a car, but to also use the Break Pedal to manange the next "take off" or hill or what ever SUV is in the way... :lol:

Ralph

I have to put out a correction.

Just because a hybrid is heavier doesn't mean really.. anything... except less mpg for now. In the future this will change. slowly, yet surely.

our RX400h stays in electric mode a lot longer than my prius. It has a lot more electric power ( like the Camry ) and will be able to use the electric power more often because the regenerative braking is improved. I can accelerate with traffic in our 400h and go up to 30mph while still staying up with traffic. No way could i do this in my prius. it isn't powerful enough.

As for breaking. the 400h has a guage. I found that if around 45.. i wouldn't say it's a light braking.. but enough where the sytem knows to break. it throws the chargle needle to a good almost full charge.. but provides me with a full electric breaking (till i hit low speeds, then i can feel the normal breaks) and this breaking effect last around... probably 300 to 500 yards. probably more. i'll measure one of these days.

i've found the prius to charge a lot under this same breaking example too. I just don't have the instant feed back to prove it.

i used to do just a light breaking.. but now i do more of a "medium" breaking... as long as i don't feel the mechanical breaks kick in.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(V8Cobrakid @ Apr 6 2006, 07:09 PM) [snapback]236098[/snapback]</div>

Hey CobraKid. This is illuminating and good info. But please!!! The word is braking, not breaking. Brake=stopped, break=fractured. Please stop breaking the English language.

PS this is a common problem, not picking on you. Good info should have correct spelling, especially when it changes the meaning (and stops seach engines from finding this info).

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Begreen @ Apr 6 2006, 08:42 PM) [snapback]236153[/snapback]</div>

Yup, people using the wrong word: breaking instead of braking and you're vs. your is a big pet peeve of mine.

very impressive. hard to believe the Camry hybrid's mileage was so close to the civic. pretty strong statement on which system is better imo

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(V8Cobrakid @ Apr 6 2006, 08:09 PM) [snapback]236098[/snapback]</div>

As far as the acceleration goes, are you referring to pure-electric mode? I don't have the EV mod installed, but I think that the chief factor relating to the Prius not being able to accelerate on pure-electric power is the fact that the system "likes" to use the engine; electric can certainly be advantageous at times, but until we get a PHEV, remember that any electric boost from the battery has to be recharged by power that comes from the engine - with an efficency loss (excluding, of course, downhill situations).

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(bsoft @ Apr 15 2006, 05:05 AM) [snapback]240100[/snapback]</div>

Keep in mind the next Prius will do the same. Accelerate all electric. And the bigger car with a bigger engine has a much higher electric acceleration capability due to the engine being big and inefficient at a greater load.
So the break even point where the engine is lower loss is much greater.

I too found the stats for the Camry Hybrid quite compelling. I wonder what they will pick on now i.e. the press.? I still love my Prius.

the TCH is gonna give everyone a run for their money. i can't wait to see one!