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Rough Engine Start? Knocking Noise At Startup? There May Be Hope Yet...

Discussion in 'Gen III 2010+ Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubles' started by josh2008, Jun 21, 2010.

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  1. josh2008

    josh2008 Hyundai Tech

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    Hello all.

    I've seen numerous concerns here on the forums about people experiencing rough engine start/knocking noise at startup. I personally haven't experienced it nor have we had any customers here inform us about it. If mine does start doing it or if we get a local complaint we are going to try our best to get to the bottom of it and find a fix.

    On June 9th, 2010 Toyota released T-SB-0146-10. The TSB description is as follows:

    Immediately following a cold soak startup, some 2009 – 2011 model year vehicles equipped with the
    1AR-FE and 2AR-FE engines may exhibit a brief knock/rattle noise from the engine compartment for
    approximately one second.

    I understand this isn't exactly what folks here are describing but it is very similar in nature. The fix you ask? A revised VVT-i cam gear. This sounds like a very possible lead for our 2ZR-FXE's.

    So, for those of you experiencing this, make it noted at your dealer. Ask them to submit a DPR (Dealer Product Report), this is how we get TSB's and other SSC's. After all, DPR's from complaints of the braking lag is how you all got SSC AoB, so they do work.

    Just thought I would let you all in on this info.:)
    13 people like this.
  2. duffasaurus

    duffasaurus Senior Member

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    Stopped in at my Toyota dealer to report this very intermittant problem and was told by the chief service technician that he could not submit a DPR on my word; he would have to observe the symptoms! So much for the reporting process! :-(
  3. Skoorbmax

    Skoorbmax Senior Member

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    Thanks for trying and updating!
  4. friendly_jacek

    friendly_jacek Senior Member

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    Actually, there is a TSB for starting noise in 2ZR-FE engine, the same design as the 2ZR-FXE engine in gen 3 Prius.

    Probably the same issue.

    Linky here: http://www.empirepao.com/tsb/T-SB-0087-09.pdf

    There is even a link to sound file embedded in the pdf (top of page 3), but it doesn't work in my PC. It wouldn't help me, as I haven't had one of those starting noises.

    Can one confirm if this is the same noise?
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  5. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web 03 and 10 Prius

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    The video link fails for me too but:


    As a general rule, a production change notice would be across the board. Since it is dated March 13, 2009, it not impossible but highly improbable that our engines suffer the same symptom. Still, it mentions a "cold soak" and that may be critical to reproducing the problem.

    Bob Wilson
  6. friendly_jacek

    friendly_jacek Senior Member

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    I disagree. 2ZR-FXE is technically a different engine and the change in 2ZR-FE would not extended automatically to 2ZR-FXE. Let me tell you a story about my Toyota RAV4. Between 2007 and 2009 many stories surfaced on internet about high pressure oil line bursting in the V6 engine stranding drivers and damaging engines. Toyota denied any issues in the V6 engine. Later someone found out that Toyota issued a TSB with fix in the same V6 engine in Avalon cars back in 2005 and replaced the defective rubber line with steel line. The same engine in Lexus cars came with steel line from the beginning. Yet Toyota continued to make RAV4s with defective rubber line till 2009 and later replaced it with new steel line. Only in 2009 recall was issued for RAV4 V6 engines and the defective rubber lines were replaced with ANOTHER rubber line. I refused this fix and replaced my rubber oil line with newer steel line myself. Now, we are talking about one engine type, the 2GR-FE. This is how the bureaucracy at Toyota works.
    2 people like this.
  7. Supra410

    Supra410 New Member

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    Mine has done it now for the last two months. I never took it to the stealership for I had no proof of the occuring event. This morning my wife started it up. Started banging and clanking and finally tripped the CEL. I'll update when I find out their remedy.
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  8. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web 03 and 10 Prius

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    Be sure and ask for the codes.

    Thanks,
    Bob Wilson
  9. Skoorbmax

    Skoorbmax Senior Member

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    Wow, a CEL I Hope you get it to dealership ASAP. These things have a tendency to turn off if the problem is only occasional.
  10. lvk

    lvk New Member

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    Just brought my car in due to the very loud engine knocking...they said that the car is running fine and since they can't douplicate the problem there is nothing they can do. I asked them to make sure corporate knows I brought the car in for this issue.

    I had to start and stop the car 3 times before it stoped making the noise. Will it damage the car to drive it after that happens?
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  11. paprius4030

    paprius4030 My first Prius

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    It just so happens this happened to me this Sat. I replied to the thread with bob Wilson's poll. I have to believe this has something to do with putting the car away the night before while briefly running the ICE. Mine happened on Sat. am and I rmember putting the car in the garage Fri. night and I forgot to push the EV button when I parked the car in the garage so the ICE started for just a few seconds before I shut it off. I gotta believe it occurs because of unburned fuel left in a cylinder. also another poster on another thread said he could quickly make it go away by flooring the accelerator, which I believe would clear out the unburned fuel quickly. we'll that my 2 cents anyway LOL
  12. tumbleweed

    tumbleweed Senior Member

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    Since I discovered that flooring the throttle for a second or two would stop the shaking and noise I have found a way which might keep it from happening. When starting from cold I floor it as soon as the Ready light comes on then let off as soon as the ICE starts rather than waiting for the 12 second delay.

    No guarantees but I have been doing it for quite a while now and have not had a rough start during that time. Maybe my car has fixed itself or maybe my "work around" really does work? need some others to try it and see.
  13. paprius4030

    paprius4030 My first Prius

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    tumbleweed? Did it happen to you on more than one occasion? This only happened to me once since I had the car from April and I was under the impression it hardly ever happens more than once or twice to people? It also happened to me just once when my 08 was fairly new.
  14. tumbleweed

    tumbleweed Senior Member

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    3 or 4 times as I recall, fairly severe shaking and banging. I'm not sure what the banging noises were, sounded like the exhaust system hitting against something. I had an '05 for a couple of years and never had the problem with it at all.
  15. Supra410

    Supra410 New Member

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    The DS called with no fix yet. He didnt elaborate much on the code just saying it was a misfire code. They are keeping car overnight to try and duplicate.
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  16. Supra410

    Supra410 New Member

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    Just a bit of info on my car. I bought the car in July. I now have 8400 miles. The car started making the noises periodically in the last 2000 miles. I was reluctant to seek dealer advice since i was not able to duplicate the stmptoms. The only time it happens is when the car is completely cold. Maybe 10 hrs+ of inactivity. On one occasion i noticed it last about 10 seconds and it smoothed for a few seconds and came back even louder for a few more seconds and quit. My best description of the sound would be a heavy duty fly swatter attached to the crank pulley slapping the under side. To me it seems as if something is not in sync during ICE startup and it runs out of sync until the ecm is able to catch up and correct it. I dunno. I have been tuning high performance Toyota Supras and Lexus model cars for quite some time. It's really hard for me to just hand the keys over and let them fondle my car. I only trust myself. Unfortunately technology is making your average shadetree mechanic obsolete. Im pretty sure i'll get a call tomorrow telling me "well we turned off the CEL and the car seems to run fine now. Maybe a fluke?". Dont get me wrong i know there are some great service techs out there. I just happen to know a few at my local Dships and lets just say they arent exaclty firing on all cylinders. Anyhow, didn't mean to ramble. Just hoping to bring helpful info to the board.
  17. friendly_jacek

    friendly_jacek Senior Member

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    It just occurred to me that if Toyota is monitoring this forum (it's likely as we are beta testing their product and pay for it too) thay figured out it is a common problem and they are working on a solution.

    I have a feeling TSB with fix will be coming soon.
  18. Supra410

    Supra410 New Member

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    Ok, DS called and could not duplicate problem. I asked what code was given and he said 301. Cyl no 1 misfire. So maybe p0301?? I dont know. So, they rearranged coil packs 1 and 2. And swapped spark plugs with 1 and 3. I was pretty sure this was what was going to happen. Also he said as they were prying up the cowl & they broke my windshield. :( Anyhow I'll post the outcome when the car does it again as we all know it will.
  19. Captain Marvel

    Captain Marvel New Member

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    Excuse my ignorance but what does 'ICE' and 'CEL' stand for??
    Thanks
  20. Supra410

    Supra410 New Member

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    Ice=internal combustion engine
    CeL=check engine light

    No worries, sometimes we get carried away with jargon.
    1 person likes this.
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