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Seat Heaters and Lumbar Supports installed and working

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Accessories & Modifications' started by knowledgeseeker, Dec 18, 2004.

  1. knowledgeseeker

    knowledgeseeker New Member

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    2004 Prius
    We just had seat heaters and (electrically controlled) lumbar supports installed in our '04 Prius, on both driver and passenger sides.

    All parts were Rostra Precision Controls, http://www.rostra.com/Default.htm . The seat heater box label says "250-1550 Seat Heater 12V Universal Kit 3174". I do not have the box from the lumbar supports, but it is probably part 250-1457, the small one. I had heard of Rostra by word-of-mouth. The installer placed the order and spoke w/ Rostra before & during the installation. He liked the parts so much that he will begin offering them to his other customers.

    The installer was Genesis Auto Upholstery of Walnut Creek, CA; http://genesisautoupholstery.com . The proprietor, Erick Molina, did most of the work. He was straightforward and knowledgeable. The cost for parts and labor was $1000. This was his first Prius (for all I know, it is THE first Prius to undergo such an addition).

    The combination makes a significant improvement to what had easily been the car's worst feature for us: the seats. They are still not up to the comfort level of those in our '03 Passat GLX, but I think they are now acceptable.

    The controls, on the side of the seat, are very understated and elegant, and work well. There is some under-dash wiring clutter, with a few wires emerging from the fusebox, implying that the fuse-box cover can't be fitted (and now lives in the glovebox). That is because of the fuse-taps commonly used in installations of this type. Also more wires under the seats. None of this is normally visible.

    The lumbar supports are inflatable with electric pumps, controlled by a rocker switch installed on the seat base, facing the door. One direction inflates, the other releases a valve and the air leaks out. They are a bit "tall" and don't provide quite the localized support of those in the Passat, but are still a significant benefit.

    The heaters are controlled by a small, round, center-off rocker switch also on the side of the seat base. They are not quite as flexible as those in the Passat, because each element is either off or on (regulated to a single preset temperature, which feels about right to me). Also, they create small lumps in the cushion where the wires connect. There is one advantage: the driver can heat the seat back w/ or w/o heating the seat bottom. The passenger has no seat bottom heater at all, since that is where the occupant sensor lives, and one does not mess with airbag actuation. But that is OK since it is really the relax-the-back effect we were after.

    All in all, I'm quite satisfied.
     
  2. bobc

    bobc New Member

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    Knowledgeseeker,

    I just received my heated seats and lumbar package from Rostra and I'll be doing the install next week.

    I wanted to check with you first, tho. I think you had posted that you found the seats too hot and went back and had the elements lowered deeper into the seats. Do I have that correct? I think this post that I'm talking about was lost during the site issues last month.

    And, to others, it's me again asking wiring/electronics questions (But to my credit, I'd rather ask these than blindly hook things up)....

    I plan on tapping into the fuse box behind the dash under the steering column. Anyone know where on that box I can tap into? The trick is that I need to tap into two power sources: One that's on when the ACC switch is on and one that's on when Ignition is on.

    I've pawed around the 'net and can't find what the wattage rating of the seat heaters are. All I know is that the fuse provided by them is rated at 10 amps and they state to wire to something 10 amps or greater....

    Can I hook both seats up to the same sources?

    Thanks again, as always, for the well thought out input!

    I'll take photos of the install and let you all know if:

    A) I burn my seats (and my butt) to a crisp....
    B) I can connect the heaters to the HV system and cook food on the seats (or at least toast my bagel) while I drive.
    C) Decide to move into the car because it's so toasty...


    Cheers,
    -bob

    Cheers,
    -bob
     
  3. knowledgeseeker

    knowledgeseeker New Member

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    Bob,

    Here are some partial answers. Because I did not do the installation myself, there are some details that I don't know.

    I did indeed find the seats too hot when I was not wearing a sweater or jacket. I called Rostra and asked about the possibilities of monkeying with the thermostats by putting resistors inline or across them, and their engineer discouraged such fiddling. He suggested that a good upholstery shop could "skive" the seat foam, that is, shave off a layer using a specialized bandsaw, then place the heater between the layers. That is what was done (by Genesis, at no extra cost; at the same time they positioned the lumbars lower, that is, as close to the seat bottom as possible). As it turns out, the heaters are not quite hot enough now for the first 10 minutes --- gradually the heat builds up. I wish I knew how deep the skive cut was made, but I do not. The Rostra guy had recommended 1/4", but I did not remember to tell Genesis that number. Skiving may not be possible w/o the special saw; the aternative would be to add a layer of foam.

    Recall that it may be unwise to use the seat-bottom heater on the passenger side due to the airbag sensor. As it turns out, I almost never use the bottom heater on the driver's side, and if I had it to do again I would install just the back heater on that side as well, set up for high/low as on the passenger side (by cutting the wire loop, and plugging the wire into the socket that is not labeled "back").

    The fuse box has 3 spade lugs plugged into it. I think (but am not sure) that one row of the fusebox is switched and the other unswitched, and that one need only find unused positions. Because there are 3 lugs, I suspect that there is one for each heater and one for the lumbars, tied together. But that is a guess. In any event, the 3 lugs are in the blank position between 10 (stop lights) and 11 (power door locks), the blank just "above" 20 (ACC 7.5 A - audio, multi-information display, clock), and the blank just "below" 21 (power outlet front 15A).

    There are inline fuses so the lugs can tap into just the hot side of the position; more elegant would be to push pins into unused positions from the back (if possible) and stick the fuses into the fuse box; then the fuse box cover could go back on. The setup under my dash looks inelegant, and would be noticed by a service technician. So if yours comes out cleaner I may retrofit mine ...

    HOWEVER, NOTE -- I think the MAIN sources for the heaters are the green wires of extension harness "C" that are SOLDERED to the (switched) ignition power - I think into the wires coming off the ignition switch. See page 5 of the instructions. The Rostra guy told me that he does not follow the instructions quite exactly when he does it -- he does not use the 3 lugs and in fact bypasses the fusebox; instead he ties everthing into the main switched and unswitched sources, close to the switch box. He mentioned that a lot of cars have ignition tap points IG1 and IG2 that can source plenty of current.

    BTW, the lumbar supports are "always on" in that they can be worked when the car is off; apparently they draw no power when the rocker is not moved to one side or the other.

    The Rostra engineer conjectured that an "install kit might make the job easier." The one for an Echo/Corolla/Matrix might work for a Prius - part numbers are 250-1772 or -1776. But I did not catch what those kits provide or how they help. If you get in trouble you can call Rostra - they seemed helpful.

    There is a photo of the side of my seat at:
    http://www.pbase.com/knowledgeseeker/image/40258287

    Good luck!
     
  4. bobc

    bobc New Member

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    Wow!

    Thanks so much for all the info!

    With this, I'll be moving forward and installing these!

    Thanks again!

    -bob
     
  5. finman

    finman Senior Member

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    I've installed the rostra power lumbar into both front seats and love them! Now, whether I'm the driver or a passenger I get a LOT better back support. I found the seats themselves pretty easy to unbolt from the car, as well as pretty easy to unhook/remove the cloth skins. There are metal d-rings that have to be bent open to release the bottom cloth, then just roll up the back portion to be able to slide the bladder between the springs and the foam. Did not even have to see the airbags, so I left that all alone. The switch is easily cut into the plastic side panel of each seat. For power I ran both power leads thru a relay, drawing constant power and ACC power from wires that I used to install my compass mirror (or the factory Homelink mirror): http://www.vfaq.net/mods/ECMirror.html
    That way the ACC wire turns the relay on and draws power from a constant 12 V. Each lead has a 5 A fuse and my relay I fused at 10 A. So far so good. Love my Prius!
     
  6. bobc

    bobc New Member

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    Great!

    Thanks finman, more good info!
     
  7. exurbem

    exurbem Junior Member

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    I'm wanting to add lumbar support (but not heated seats) to my soon-to-be-arriving 2005 Prius. Rostra wasn't sure which model to use--either 250-1454 or 250-1453. Could anyone tell me?

    The parts cost is $75; any estimates on labor?

    Many thanks,

    Ed
     
  8. bobc

    bobc New Member

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    Hi Ed,

    I'll be installing mine this weekend and can tell you more then. I picked up a pair of 250-1454's.

    The 1454's are 10.25" wide while the 1453's are 12" wide.

    -bob
     
  9. exurbem

    exurbem Junior Member

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    Bob,

    Thanks so much for getting back. I was curious how the installation went. I'd like to get lumbar support, but don't need the heated seats. So, I just wanted to know which kit will work, and how much the installation might cost.

    Thanks again,

    Ed
     
  10. finman

    finman Senior Member

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    I can recommend my old work in Denver. They're called PDA, Inc. and do car installs. They do have a website (http://66.70.95.71/index.asp), but it's not really set up well, some items are not easily indexed, then call them to order, etc. 303-761-6022. You can even use my name if you want. No discounts, but I'm still ordering from them and in good standing! If I remember my lumbar cost $52 each plus tax (6% or maybe even 7% in Denver) plus shipping up here. I want to say they both got here for under $125 total. Labor? Hmmm, I'd say a shop would take an hour for each one, maybe an hour and a half for 3 hours of labor total...$45-65 an hour...maybe $150 to do the job? Just estimating here. It took me 3 hours for both, but I am 5 years removed from my 'experienced' days of installing, plus I was in no hurry. Hope this helps...I know it helps my lower back now! They really are a nice product and addition to the...sparse...Prius seats.
     
  11. bobc

    bobc New Member

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    Hi Ed,

    I didn't get around to installing the lumbar pads this past weekend. The weather was just too nice to be inside!

    They're calling for rain this weekend, so, if nothing comes up, I'll be installing them then. I'll post after the fact with any insigts on the size...

    -bob
     
  12. bobc

    bobc New Member

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    Ed,
    I installed the seat heaters and lumbar support in the driver's seat this past Sat. I know you were interested in knowing what size works best. I'll share what I know so far.

    Short answer: 250-1454. Long answer:

    The seat is composed of three key elements: The springs, then in front of that is the foam, then the upholstery.

    From the pamphlet that came with the lumbar support, the small bladder (1457) is 10.5" wide. The standard bladder (1453) is 12" wide. There's a third bladder (1454) that's 10.25" wide. From talking to Rostra, the 1457 is no longer made, so it's either the 1453 (standard bladder) or the 1454. The 1453 is made to go between the foam and the upholstery only. The 1454 can go between the foam and the upholstery or between the springs and the foam. (For folks adding seat heaters, Rostra said they can both be between the foam and the upholstery so long as some other material is placed between the two units so the bladder isn't right up against the heater).

    OK, so it boils down to size. The vertical seams that you see in the upholstery as you look at the seat back will limit the size of the bladder. These seams are about 11" apart. This rules out the 12" bladder (1453).

    As for positioning the bladder, it's easier to tie down the bladder to the springs.

    As for functionality, which placement is better. I can't answer that one yet. I ran out of time and wasn't able to hook the power up. Finman mentioned that he placed his between the springs and the foam and it works great. Finman, out of curiosity, do you have the 1454 or some other bladder?

    I know that your question only needed a short answer Ed, but I just wanted to document my findings as future reference for others.

    Cheers,
    -bob
     
  13. finman

    finman Senior Member

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    Mine's the 1454, went between the springs and the foam. It does work nicely. I usually get in, start the car and deflate the lumbar somewhat, readjust my butt and seating arrangement (for lack of better details), then re-inflate the lumbar until it goes into the small of my back.
     
  14. harold

    harold Member

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    Five
    Had my Rostra Seat Heaters and Lumbar installed at Sun Auto Tops in Sunrise, FL.
    They were great and they work great!
     
  15. finman

    finman Senior Member

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    Okay, I just have to ask: seat heaters in S. Florida?? Please tell me they're for winter road trips northward! Or is global climate change for real, ha...All kidding aside, I love my lumbar support. Give's me even more reason to want to drive my Prius.
     
  16. harold

    harold Member

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    I can see the glaciers coming closer from my window.............

    I use them for theraputic reasons, having had some trouble with my back. The heaters are great, like a heating pad.
     
  17. finman

    finman Senior Member

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    Hey, excellant use! I use my Prius for thereputic reasons too: my mental health/stress reliever, my cleaner air, my less consumption. It's really an all-in-one solution for many of society's ills!
     
  18. DanMan32

    DanMan32 Senior Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(finman\";p=\"89871)</div>
    I was wondering that myself.