seeking insight on pre-2004 Prius vs. Honda Civic Hybrid

well the wife started with a 2k1 Prius and it was a good car, reliable and very economical. Drove it across western Canada and over mountain passes and never managed to get below about 47 miles to the Imperial gallon for as long as we owned the car. Along comes the 2k4 and she has to have one and trades in the 2k1, but the 2k4 has never gotten the mileage that the 2k1 did. Yes it has more bells and whistles and such but for all the extra power and flash 44 is about all it will do. At the time we traded in the Classic I wasn't all that intrested in getting rid of my Tundra so we let it go, then a bunch of things conspired and I decided that the Tundra had to go and got what was probably the last new 2k3 Prius in Canada. I have it now at about 54 Imperial miles to the gallon for the lifetime average. The Classic is a good capable car and I would whole hartedly recommend it to someone with the want for a Prius and the finances of a second hand car. Lots are coming off leases and can be had for a good discount. The first stop if you interested in an ex-lease is a dealer lease manager. Tell him your looking for a good low mileage Prius and see what he's got coming in or has on a back lot. Also the internet and more dealers in your state or within driving distance. As for the HCH I don't even know anyone with one to ask what the thing is like. All I know is it's not a full hybrid like the Prius.

 

Well the original prius wasn't a full hybrid either, but dang sounds like you're getting some pretty good mileage with that thing! Wish I could break 50MPG on my 2004 Hard enough to break 48 sometimes.....

My favorite site for car reviews is edmunds.com, consumer reports is good too but I think you need a subscription. Generally what I have heard is that there was nothing new technology-wise in the honda civic hybrid, over the prius, but it had less compromises in terms of size/space than the original prius (slightly more advanced design). Of course, the HCH doesn't stick out as a hybrid the way the prius does.

Hopefully some people with actual comparative experiences will elaborate, since all I know about the two cars is what I remember reading back in march/april 2003 when I was thinking that my next car would be one of the two.

 

what do you mean the origional Prius wasn't a full hybrid. It's exactly the same as the 2k4 when your talking hybrid Starts on electric and has 2 mg's and a Miller cycle ICE. Just like the 2k4. Not quit as powerful but the same basic technology.

 

Well my understanding, although I may be wrong, was that a "full hybrid" was defined as being able to run on only the gas engine, only the electric motor, or both if necessary. I think that in the original prius the gas engine only shuts off when the car is stopped.

But, maybe I am thinking "parallel hybrid" vs. "series hybrid", and "full hybrid" refers to something else. In terms of the difference between the HCH and the original Prius, I'm not an expert by any means.

Anyone who knows more care to comment?

 

The 2001-2003 Prius IS full hybrid, but has the engine compressor A/C so it won't shut down at stops like the '04+.

I rented both the 2003 HCH and Prius early summer 2003. I would say they are functionally equivilent, in the "get me from here to there" sense. Both are nice cars in their size range. Both fail my "folding rear seatback" requirement. A few thoughts.

 

a full hybrid is a vehicle that can either run completely on electric power or can run completely on gas or both at the same time.

the Prius classic IS a true hybrid.

 

A weakness of Civic-Hybrid (CVT) is stop & slow traffic, like many people experience on their daily commute. MPG suffers under those conditions.

Auto-Stop will not re-engage unless speed reaches 10 MPH. (Classic & HSD Prius doesn't have a speed requirement for the engine to shut back off. In fact, the engine will usually remain off when you creep forward.)

Auto-Stop is limited when the temperature drops below 40 F degrees. (Classic Prius has a limit of 20 F degrees. HSD Prius has a limit of -15 F degrees.)

Auto-Stop halts the A/C blower. (Classic Prius keeps it running when on low, even with the engine off. HSD Prius has electric A/C, so the relevance is minimal.)

Assist relies primarily on regenerative-braking for electricity. That means once that is depleted, forced-charging is required, which causes a noticeable MPG hit. It also means assist availability becomes limited. (Classic & HSD Prius generates electricity 100 percent of the time the engine is providing thrust to the wheels, so the relevance is minimal.)

 

People make other unpleasant discoveries about Civic-Hybrid too, like the fact that it requires special oil (0W-20) which isn't available at quick-lube places or many places that sell oil and its expensive. Prius just uses plain, old, ordinary 5W-30.

I was in favor of support IMA in the early years. But as it evolved, I became frustrated. Their new efficiency improvement called VCM won't work on a 4-cylinder engine, only 6 & 8. And the "hybrid" A/C doesn't make sense. Where will the electricity for it come from with a passive recharge system? And of course, SULEV emissions has not been made a priority.

 

No hell from me here - I completely agree. I could be wrong here, but personally I see it as fear in the general automaker world that if you make something too different, people won't want it. I never realized that Prius was around for 4 years until looking at Johns site - then, when out driving and looking for the telltale signs (driver side black vent behind passenger door, front mounted antenna), I started seeing them all over the place.

It's all a personal choice of course whether you want your car to look different or not, so to each their own. I do not know what's worse in my opinion though - seeing 'regular' looking hybrids, or seeing cars that look like hybrids that aren't! (Ford Focus, Echo, etc.)

-m.

 

as stated above by bruceha_2000 the turning radius is wrong. From the NCF for both cars it's stated as
2k4
turning radius wall to wall 36.1'
curb to curb 34.9'
classic wall to wall 33.5'
curb to curb 30.8'
the turning circle on the classis is one of the reasons that I chose it. Along with a real trunk, not fond of hatch backs. Also most of them were factory equipped with cruise control. I have not seen one without and I've looked at a lot of them, 25 -35 and they all had it. Maybe the first of the 2k1's were not equipped but our 2k1 had it and so does my 2k3.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Frank Hudon\";p=\"44915)</div>

Could be, I just pulled the 2004 number from the Toyota web site. Had to scrounge long and hard to find the value for the 2001-2003.

 

To present a little bit of a different perspective, my wife loves her 04 Civic Hybrid. She does stop-and-go Atlanta traffic 5 days a week and has averaged consistently 47-48 mpg each tank. We kind of like the stealth nature of having a hybrid that doesn't scream "HYBRID". My wife is not one who likes flashy cars, so the HCH fits perfectly.

The special oil is only a few bucks more per oil change, but no big deal to me as I'm used to paying for synthetis that I use in my Turbo Volvo.

So far we are 100% satisfied with our HCH, it's not as technologically advanced as a 2K4 Prii, but it's (many) thousands cheaper, available with no wait, and it's a quality built vehicle. 8)

 

Is your HCH a Manual or CVT? (The MPG difference is significant.)

Also, when was it purchased? (Warm weather only data is quite different from year-round.)

 

Is the "seeking insight" subject supposed to be a pun?

My wife and I checked out the HCH and Insight before seeking a Prius. What made up our minds:

• Can't fold down the rear seat in HCH because of the battery placement, so much less space and flexibility or cargo. Ultimately, we'd prefer a car that can fully replace our Saturn sedan once it gets old. (While complementing it for now.)
• Honda's hybrid system isn't as efficient when you're using heat/AC, and the setup for managing climate control limits what you can do when based on this.
• Prius HSD gas mileage is enough better than HCH that, after additional tax incentives (federal $2000 deduction, Oregon $1500 credit), we'll recover the "extra cost of a hybrid" much faster... actually well within the life of the car.
  • 
    
    Also, finding a new Prius might be easier and quicker than you think. We were offered ours only ten days after getting on a dealer's waiting list... though it may have been sort of a fluke that nobody else on their extensive lists wanted a base model (aka "package #0") in black (we'd asked for #0, 1, 3 or 4 and didn't care what color). If you cast a wide enough net, you'll find rural dealers with short lists or no lists, sometimes even with inventory. Some dealers can get you a car sooner if you're willing to pay above MSRP (which may or may not be agreeable to you). And the used market for 2004 Prii is not bad... not good, but not bad either.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(veggiegreenguyNYNJ\";p=\"45905)</div>

Congratulations! You will LOVE the car, it is definately a level or 2 above the others.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(veggiegreenguyNYNJ\";p=\"45905)</div>

Congratulations!

While awaiting delivery of a 2004 package 1 (RW) Prius, I began to experience warning signs of serious engine and transmission issues with my 1997 Plymouth Breeze. After a few weeks of debating and not wanting to spend more on a higher level package, I decided to give up on the wait list and buy another automobile. I narrowed the list down a few comparably priced (or cheaper) cars including the Hybrid Civic, Corolla or the Matrix.

When I discussed this decision with my wife she damn near bit my head off.

“NO! YOU’LL HATE ANY OTHER CAR! JUST SPEND THE EXTRA FEW GRAND A GET THE CAR YOU WANT!â€

Three weeks later, I picked up my Package #7 (AM) from the dealership.