Should we blame the Nazis for our current healthcare conundrum?

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by burritos, Aug 16, 2011.

  1. burritos

    burritos Senior Member

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    ok, blame the Japanese too. Here is why. Before WWII 10 percent of our healthcare was administered through employer based benefits. During WWII, in fear of inflation, the U.S. government imposed wage freezes. Thus with our able bodied men over seas fighting the Germans and Japanese there was a severe shortage of workers to meet the demands to manufacture our goods and arms. So the only thing our employers could do was offer "fringe" benefits, ie pensions and healthcare. And to compete, these offering had to be generous. After WWII 60% of our healthcare was administered through employer based benefits. This is a trend that has never ended and arguably has made our healthcare more expensive and our free market system less competitive.

    Think about it, why would you want our employer to offer health care? Is there anything innate about being a boss that makes them better at offering health care? GM not only has to be good at making cars, but they also have to be good and dispensing health care? Huh? Would you want them to offer a food plan? If they did offer a food plan and all you had was a co pay to pick whatever stuff you liked out of the store without regards to the price of the food, what do you think the prices would do overtime? This is a very inefficient way to deliver health care.

    Also, have you ever known of people who work at a place just so they can keep their benefits? Many people work at place not because the employer/employee relationship but because they need the health care coverage.This is not an ideal situation to get people to work in the jobs they are best at.

    Teabaggers blame Obama, democrats blame republicans, I blame Adolf and Emperor Hirohito.
     
  2. spiderman

    spiderman wretched

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    Why not blame someone else?

    I think we should be able to pick and choose our own health-care coverage like we do auto/home insurance. Employers could offer to help pay for your coverage as an incentive.
     
  3. hyo silver

    hyo silver Awaaaaay

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    The bigger the insurance pool, the lower the individual risk, and the lower the overall cost. As soon as the population is divided up into different classes, whether by income, employment, age, or any other 'risk factor', insurance gets more expensive. This works for almost any type of insurance you care to name, including healthcare. I don't understand why people have no issues with 'group coverage' for something like fire insurance or police protection, yet have such strong objections to 'socialist' healthcare.
     
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  4. Hidyho

    Hidyho Senior Member

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    Very good explanation Hyo.
     
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  5. mainemanx

    mainemanx Member

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    Why not buy health insurance the same way as home, disability, etc.? I take care of my health... why should I be lumped in with those that don't?
     
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  6. 2k1Toaster

    2k1Toaster HID Guru

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    Because it is easier to blame those that aren't around (well in huge numbers at least). :p

    You believe you are qualified to determine what medicine and treatment you need now and will need over the length of your coverage term? It seems much simpler to give everyone healthcare no strings attached. You can go to whatever doctor you please, they prescribe whatever medication they see fit, and everyone foots a small part of the bill. I am not sure why so many are against paying for other people. Do these same people complain about the donation jars for charity? I will happily pay a percentage of income tax to a general fund so all can use it for their healthcare. And if I ever need it, I would be glad it was there for me. Not everything must be about stuffing your pockets full of cash and gloating over those less fortunate.
     
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  7. spiderman

    spiderman wretched

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    Well that should be pretty obvious answer but if not;
    Because, that individual has the freedom to choose what he/she wants/needs not some bureaucrat, duh. The pools would soon form just like everything else.

    I recently combined my auto and home. Now we save a few bucks a month plus have the convenience of one bill. I could see being able to combine my major heath with my dental and vision in the same way. I could still see things like HCRA being used.
     
  8. spiderman

    spiderman wretched

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    That is just plain sad that you and others have this desire to place words in others mouths. You simply have no idea of who I am. Please stop.
     
  9. burritos

    burritos Senior Member

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    Because it doesn't behoove the monied interests to make an optimal(though not optimally profitable) healthcare system to serve most everyone.
     
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  10. 2k1Toaster

    2k1Toaster HID Guru

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    Stop taking things so personally. It wasn't intended as an attack on you. It was attack on those that think everyone should fend for themselves. If that is you, then yes it is an attack on you, but I wasn't singling you out... Grow up.
     
  11. burritos

    burritos Senior Member

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    You do know that people who run insurance companies are bureaucrats right?
     
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  12. cyclopathic

    cyclopathic Senior Member

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    why don't you blame monopoly imposed by ABMS and others?

    after all we are the only country which does not recognize the out of US doctor certifications.. or don't use latin-based terminology.
     
  13. spiderman

    spiderman wretched

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    In a way, true, however we would have the option to use whichever one we wanted and that one (e.g. Coop or a trust) might be comprised of like-minded people want the best coverage for the least amount. The options are endless.
     
  14. SlowTurd

    SlowTurd I LIKE PRIUS'S

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    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SDrqa-eTXU&feature=related]South Park: Blame Canada Song & Video HD - YouTube[/ame]
     
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  15. frodoz737

    frodoz737 Top Wrench

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    We need more people like you.
     
  16. dogfriend

    dogfriend Human - Animal Hybrid

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    We need to decouple health care from employment. This becomes very clear if you ever end up unemployed. Single payer (govt run) health care would be the easiest way to accomplish this and would theoretically be lowest cost. Insurance lobbyists and their captive politicians will never let it happen.
     
  17. hyo silver

    hyo silver Awaaaaay

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    The individual can choose whatever doctor they want, and decide when and how often they need to go. The doctor decides what your health needs are, not some...'bureaucrat' whose job it is to deny coverage claims. The more claims that can be denied, for whatever reason, no matter how trivial, the higher the profits. The more insurance companies there are, the more...'bureaucrats' are employed, not only using your health care dollars that would be better spent elsewhere, but working hard to reduce your coverage. The more 'choice' you have of picking another insurance company, the more 'choice' they have to drop you if you're costing them too much. And if you change jobs, or lose your job, you and your family will lose your coverage. What kind of 'freedom' is that?

    'Not for profit' healthcare puts people first. 'Not for people' healthcare puts profits first.
     
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  18. 2k1Toaster

    2k1Toaster HID Guru

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    You are living in a fantasy world and have obviously never had to deal with hospitalization and fighting with the insurance company for basic treatment.

    (yes that was directed to you)
     
  19. spiderman

    spiderman wretched

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    Have you? (yes that was directed at you).
     
  20. spiderman

    spiderman wretched

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    You have some good points, but as these things evolve, the tyrants will get left behind because there is competition there is choice. Also you are limiting your imagination here. Case in point: I am currently in a health trust in which a board of trustees (elected by the participants) manage our funds provided by our employer and us. The trust is mandated by the employer to meet certain minimums but otherwise have full reins. The trust has hired a company to process the claims. This year we saw an increase in coverage and a decrease in premiums. I am not saying we don't pay a chuck into it but the coverage is good. There are some decisions I haven't been on board with but in general the trustees have done a good job.

    Nothing is perfect but I would rather side with the people than the government. I have worked for a couple government agencies and I know what goes on inside.