<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(cwerdna @ Aug 25 2007, 06:21 PM) [snapback]501928[/snapback]</div>

OMG!! Are they building a vehicle, or a permanent job for some mechanics? :blink: With all of that complexity, it is going to spend an awful lot of time in the shop.

Or maybe they are trying to setup a scenario where the hybrid has all sorts of problems and then they can use it as an example of why hybrids are no good - gets them out of doing a proper job and try to rubbish Toyota's efforts.

I can't wait to hear the local GM mechanics take on these.

Yeah, right. And if a frog had wings, it wouldn't bump its ass hopping, either. It might not be the most expensive, but I'll bet it's pretty damn close. Remember, GM has already tried to sell a hybrid Sierra pickup that was priced several thousand dollars over the non-hybrid versions. Of course, this expensive GM 'hybrid' only got one mpg better than the non-hybrid versions and was nothing more than a small added electric generator that supplied an auxillary electrical outlet. Prospective buyers stayed away in droves and the Sierra hybrid was cancelled quickly.

Given the outrageous prices GM wants for their crap, then the inevitable mechanical problems (particularly with something this complicated), I wouldn't touch this thing with a ten-foot pole at any price. Thanks primarily to GM's well-earned reputation on introducing new vehicle technology (of any kind), the hybrid Yukon would seem to have 'loser' written all over it even before it hits the dealer lots.

What? Can't GM get adequate power from a 6 litre engine so they put a hybrid system together?
How many gears? How many clutches? What are they on?

20mpg should be considered a crime not an achievement.
It's a truck, why isn't it diesel? Why not diesel hybrid?

Let's see ... Yukon gets a whopping 14mpg (shaking head) . . . average hybrid (according to the new 2008 EPA standards) gets an extra 15% better mpg. So that would be a whopping 16mpg. Oh boy, I know I'll be running out to buy one really really soon. (shaking head). Moving forward. Thanks GM.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(patsparks @ Aug 25 2007, 11:50 AM) [snapback]501978[/snapback]</div>

Remind me again, how do the 4Runner and Sequioa do in city driving?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jonnycat26 @ Aug 25 2007, 01:23 PM) [snapback]502030[/snapback]</div>

Yea! comeon, you know . . . as long as Toyota makes any guzzlers, GM MUST get a free pass. So until Toyota never never ever does any wrong, ever again, we must all keep quiet about GM's 14 billion losses last year, guzzlers, lies about the EV1, etc etc.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jonnycat26 @ Aug 25 2007, 01:23 PM) [snapback]502030[/snapback]</div>

GM's have better mpg even before the hybrid. The Yukon and its brothers have higher highway mpg then the Sequioa and they are slightly larger as well.

A 3 mpg savings on a vehicle like this translates into a huge amount of fuel saved. That is GM's logic at least.

Now I would like to see a full hybrid Silverado or Colorado pickup truck come out first. I think the world needs a good hybrid work truck.

Four clutches on GM product? Its probobly a good idea to look into the warranty and if the whole tranny is covered for at least five years. The genius of the Prius is that they used the hybrid system as a chance to greatly reduce complexity of the transmission and it has proven itself over time. GM should learn from the million examples of the power split device driving te road today.

I do applaud GM for comming out with this. I know most of the other board members won't. It's a start and I would like to see where they take their hybrid technology.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hill @ Aug 25 2007, 02:33 PM) [snapback]502052[/snapback]</div>

Isn't there a saying, something like when you live in a glass house, don't throw stones?

What about Toyota's lies about the Rav4EV and their steering column of death recalls?

I'm not saying GM is a great company, or even a good company... it's just that Toyota is NO better.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hampdenwireless @ Aug 25 2007, 01:41 PM) [snapback]502057[/snapback]</div>

Until there's direct competition for Camry-Hybrid, it's not truly out... since the bulk of the population doesn't drive large SUVs anyway.

In other words, the real difference comes from selling large volumes of their hybrid system.

A car (not truck) of great appeal (signficant emission & efficiency improvement) is what's truly needed.





<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tideland Prius @ Aug 25 2007, 11:01 AM) [snapback]501986[/snapback]</div>

I recently discovered the enthusiasts are proud to claim the title "most complex" system.

How about that for a complete reversal of attitude? Just a few years ago it was precisely the opposite.

The funniest part is that trolls like HiLaker made great statements like this (at http://priuschat.com/index.php?showtopic=3...;#entry462473):
"At the same time competition (BMW, GM, DB) agreed to share superior technology (to lower cost) that is much more elegant, driver friendly and actually cleaner then Toyota's because it will be applied across entire fleet (instead of 1% share of hybrids in Toyota's production) without damaging profitability or increasing prices for consumers."

I wasn't saying General Motors are criminals, I'm saying the people who buy these monsters to drive to and from work in are.
Gun manufacturers aren't criminals but use their product to kill threaten or injure someone and you might be.

I believe GM are setting themselves up to fall on this project so they can convince people hybrids are crap now lets get back to what we know and what's easy for us to make, a bit like EV1.
I wonder if you will be able to buy these things or only lease from GM?

I don't need a goods carrying vehicle but when I do I won’t be looking for a GM product, Toyota have the reliability "runs" on the board. I also wont be looking for a petrol engine in a truck, why would you when diesel rules in large displacement engines?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(john1701a @ Aug 25 2007, 02:01 PM) [snapback]502066[/snapback]</div>

The bulk of the population doesn't drive large SUV's? Your kidding right? Over half the vehicles sold in the US are light trucks. There are over 2 million full size trucks alone sold in the US each year. Like it or not Americans love their trucks and SUV's.

Going from 15 to 18 mpg is a huge jump in fuel efficiency. For someone that drives 15K miles per year that change saves 168 gallons a fuel per year. Yes, it still uses a lot of fuel but savings are savings.

I'm not really concerned about GM's full size hybrid system. Yes, it is complicated but it is also pretty much a scaled down version of the system they use on transit buses. The reliability should be there.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jhinton @ Aug 25 2007, 10:04 PM) [snapback]502208[/snapback]</div>

I hope you're kidding. The automotive market is whole lot bigger than just what's found between our two coasts. Long-Term financial well-being requires support for that, not just the American obsession.

And by the way, 2 million is only 12 percent. American's purchase around 17 million new vehicles annually.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(john1701a @ Aug 25 2007, 08:20 PM) [snapback]502214[/snapback]</div>

jhinton's statement is closer to accurate. For the 06 model year, 50% of vehicles sold were "light trucks" per http://www.epa.gov/otaq/cert/mpg/fetrends/420s06003.htm. Per http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/pdf99/426721_web.pdf, light trucks have outsold passenger cars.

That said, "light trucks" includes minivans, vans, small to large SUVs, pickups and some that I wouldn't consider to be "light trucks" but car companies get them categorized as such (examples include the Subaru Outback wagon, Chrysler PT Cruiser and Chevy HHR). Presumably, it's to boost their light truck CAFE #s to avoid paying fines.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(john1701a @ Aug 25 2007, 10:20 PM) [snapback]502214[/snapback]</div>

I'm not kidding. I was talking about the US market as it is the largest automotive market in the world and in general the one that this forum talks about since it is mostly populated my Americans.

If you want to talk about the world market that you need to talk about the B and C segment cars.

B-Segment:
Toyota Yaris Hatch
Honda Fit

C-Segment:
Toyota Corolla
Honda Civic

The US market Camry is HUGE compared to what most of the world drives.

2 million is only the number of full size trucks in the US. It is amazing to me that 12% of new car buyers in the US choose a full size truck. That number does not include any SUV's, or smaller trucks. As I said before, 50% of buyers in the US choose a light truck as their vehicle choice. You can't just ignore this segment of vehicles.

Our long-term future doesn't include the automobile as our primary mode of transportation. Making cars and trucks more fuel efficient is only a small step transitional step. Another transportation technology will replace the car just like the car replaced the horse.