<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Jan 6 2007, 11:59 PM) [snapback]371970[/snapback]</div>

Sounds a bit like their old California Electric Vehicle with upgraded LI batteries and a gas engine added. It would be inefficient to use the engine this way, but might make up for it if it were a plug-in as well, which one might imply from that 6.5 hour recharge time. (Sorry, should have read the first post first, as I only mention the obvious)

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(syclone @ Jan 6 2007, 11:23 PM) [snapback]371969[/snapback]</div>

I suppose if people acknowledge the reality that a concept vehicle rarely ever advances beyond being just a publicity tool, there's not much harm done. After all, automotive history is loaded with publicity models that never actually make it to production. But it is still rather annoying hearing people say stuff like they'll wait for a fuel-cell vehicle rather than considering a hybrid. It's evidence that crucial details are lost in the dazzle of showing off for the press.

In this particular case, the "E-Flex" series hybrid sounds great... until that note about no batteries actually being available is read. It's a vital component that's missing, making production unrealistic anytime soon.

What's this? :huh: A new electric vehicle for GM to crush because . . .
“We learned that customers did not want to plan their lives around the next battery charge.â€

So how is the Volt - a plug in vehicle - that much different from the EV-1 if you only use it for short distance driving?

I sure as hell wouldn't be leasing a Chevy Volt.

So far, this thing is just a bunch of vaporware. " . . .the company cannot set a production schedule until the proper batteries are ready."
When will that be? As far behind as GM normally runs behind the competition in automobile high-technology . . . my guess is the latter half of the next decade. <_<

“We are dead serious about taking this technology into high-volume production.†. . . and then crushing it as proof that nobody wants this stuff if it doesn't come in an SUV form factor. :blink: :lol:

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(john1701a @ Jan 7 2007, 01:02 AM) [snapback]371981[/snapback]</div>

When I left grad school in '71 (hate to date myself this way ), the Engineering Department had a working gas-electric hybrid project car, and only 30 years later it made it into the marketplace. Same is probably true for today's lab prototypes: don't hold your breath.

The perfect concept car. On paper only. And they can pretty much claim anything they want.

They don't even have to build one, so nothing to crush.

Does anyone find it interesting that this has come out after all of the bad press of "Who Killed the Electric Car"? And notice they made it a point to mention the EV1 in the article.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Godiva @ Jan 7 2007, 02:19 AM) [snapback]371984[/snapback]</div>

Amazing how many posters in this forum seem to actually be praying for GM's demise. Never mind the 10's of thousands of people directly employed by GM, the 10's of thousands of families who rely on their spouses employment. Your basic lack of the understanding of the economic impact GM has on the US is astounding to say the least...

Back to the Volt. I think it is an excellent concept car. What appeals to me the most is its relative simplicity compared to the standard hybrids that exist today. Yes, the Chevy Volt operating as a serial hybrid cannot achieve the efficiencies that the Prius can operating as a parallel hybrid but it comes close. But the price point should be lower allowing more people to buy hybrids. And it is a PHEV. If used as a PHEV this car will burn sigificantly less fuel than the Prius.

Rick
#4 2006

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(viking31 @ Jan 7 2007, 05:33 AM) [snapback]372020[/snapback]</div>

No, they are just judging GM on past performance.

I'd buy one. But I'm not holding my breath. The article in Forbes says "it may never be built."

But if they do build it, and come out with it first, I'd sure buy one. A 40-mile plug-in range more than makes up for its less-than-Prius efficiency for the long trips that I take so seldom.

I hope they build it. I hope they succeed. But considering GM's history, I think it's all just make-believe.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(viking31 @ Jan 7 2007, 08:33 AM) [snapback]372020[/snapback]</div>

I'm not praying for GM's demise. I'm praying they finally get their act together and start doing what the Japanese are doing, rather than building cars that are crapmobiles, closing plants in the U.S. and moving to Mexico, giving their executives obscene bonusus, and then whining that nobody is buying their cars anymore.

If GM sold a car as good as the Prius, with the same reliability as a Toyota, I would buy it in a second.

But until them, it's not so much a "praying for GM's demise" but rather a jaw-dropping-in-disbelief suicide watch.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TechLite @ Jan 7 2007, 02:26 AM) [snapback]371975[/snapback]</div>

Serial hybrids are not that inefficient. There is about a 20% loss from running an engine to power batteries/motor instead of running the wheels directly, but there is a gain from sizing the engine right and engineering it to run at one speed most efficiently. Considering that you are going to get 40 miles all electric before you run that engine and the electric mpg equivilent is over 100mpg this is a very green car.

The real question is will GM build it??? The battery tech is here now unlike what they claim, its just expensive.
They could still build it for less then $40,000. If they were serious they could build 100-1000 of them now.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(viking31 @ Jan 7 2007, 08:33 AM) [snapback]372020[/snapback]</div>

Yawn. If you really believe that, why do you have a Prius instead of a Chevy or something? After all, by your logic, you are directly contributing to their demise yourself. If they make products that people want to buy, then people will buy them. If they even stood behind their products, then I know at least one person who would have a garage full of GM stuff instead of Toyota. In the meantime, why whine about folks calling them on their bullshit?

hey ill be first in line to get one!! IF Toyota doesnt come out with one first...

on 2nd thought... chevy, take me off your list.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DaveinOlyWA @ Jan 7 2007, 10:32 AM) [snapback]372104[/snapback]</div>

Hopefully by then, better batteries will be available, my existing traction batteries will be out of warantee, and I'll have done a PHEV conversions.

Dave M.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(viking31 @ Jan 7 2007, 08:33 AM) [snapback]372020[/snapback]</div>

I don't believe I said anything in my post about praying for the demise of GM. There was no gloating or glee. There was picking through the hype to try to see the big picture.

It would be nice if they'd build the car but they've left themselves a huge out with "Well, we could do it but alas, no batteries meet the needs."

Well, I could build myself a space ship on paper and say, alas, there is no miracle propulsion system.

They say batteries for their concept car might be available by 2010. By 2010 their concept car will probably be so "old" it would have to be redesigned anyway.

So I'm calling a spade and spade. It's PR. It's paper vapor. It's a dunsel car.

No gleefully anticipating the demise of GM. Just calling it as I see it.

And I understand their economics plenty. They made their bed and now they don't like the quality of their sleep. Well, what law says their upper management has to take their obscene paychecks for bad decisions and failing job performance. Because that's whose fault it ultimately is. I don't see any of them giving up any of their annual income to help the company. Something they could easily do as I'm sure they're all very well off independent of their paychecks. Something their workers are not.

Look up the current AARP magazine. Big Business is getting on the Universal Healthcare bandwagon because they realize their employees need it. If they can't afford it it might be because healthcare costs have risen 85%. Whose fault is that? I'd say.....Healthcare and insurance companies. So lay the blame there. Oh...and add the exhorbitant cost of drugs. Nothing like holding people hostage with their lives...pay or die. And our government is helping them every step of the way denying drugs from Canada and making it illegal to negotiate under Medicare.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(viking31 @ Jan 7 2007, 09:33 AM) [snapback]372020[/snapback]</div>

"won't somebody think of the children!!!"

Please... you make it sound like every time we say bad things about GM, a kitten dies somewhere.

This is very important : It is NOT our responsibility as Americans to buy American cars. Buying a Japanese car, or seeing the merits of Toyota's hybrid drive does NOT make us less patriotic than someone who buys a GM. To echo what has been said many times, I don't buy a GM vehicle because GM doesn't make anything that meets my requirements for features, fuel economy, safety and reliability. Isn't that the way capitalism is supposed to work? They need to make a better product to get my business.

People on this forum have nothing but sympathy for the families employed by GM... but because we have sympathy for those people, we are PISSED at the management at GM who have steered the company into blunder after blunder, and cost many of those people those jobs when their blunders forced the company to close plants.

None of us were happy when that happened. A lot of us were pissed, and nothing but bad things to say about GM's management.

There's a big difference between criticizing the management of a major multinational corporation and saying their employees are worthless. You seem to be mixing that up.

In the MSNBC.com article, Art Spinella of CNW Marketing declares the Volt will make hybrids obsolete. That strikes several nerves. Imagine you are choosing heart medication and a compartive article is put out by a firm....that was paid by Glaxo - that's CNW, and they are nothing like Consumer Reports.

The Volt is not a hybrid, yet it is electric powered and has a gas engine? Even it this is technically correct, my BS buzzers are deafening.

The Volt is going to meet or beat the Prius II? I'm skeptical an automaker can go from the embarrassing Saturn VUE to this.

I hope GM actually delivers, but their history says otherwise...

I always wanted a car with a super long front end. Then I would not have to worry about leg room or cabin space, because there would be none! Just like all of the GM cars that I looked at before buying a RAV4 and then a Prius. GM's ideals are far from mine. While I was thinking about fuel economy they were telling me that I needed 4 wheel drive to drive in the rain! Horsepower is what I needed to win the fictional race on the road that ended with 1970 and the fuel shortage, let alone all of the freaking traffic that I contantly drive in.
GM is stuck in the Baby Boomer dream world. Remembering yesterday "when the good cars were built" while the Japanese passed them by. I liked the stones that they threw at the "complicated" hybrids that are out now. I was a Chevy man growing up.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(viking31 @ Jan 7 2007, 05:33 AM) [snapback]372020[/snapback]</div>

hmmm not really. we are looking at a few hundred thousand people with gm verses 300 million americans. we outnumber gm by significant margin and we (or most of us) are a self-centered lot primarily concerned with our own little circles of life. i see gm as a huge weight dragging us down, wasting our precious resources on crap that few wants, destroying our environment with inefficient garbage they pass off as automobiles and therefore they oppose my path to the good life.

i have chosen to destroy gm by doing what i can to attack their business model. many millions have chosen to follow me. i am grateful for their support. i will also be grateful for the thousands of talented gm workers who will be able to contribute to company that will help america instead of hurting america.

godiva says she doesnt hope gm collapses... well, i am disappointed to hear that. i pray that gm goes away every day. they have given us false promises only to disappoint time after time after time.

good riddence gm