I think his point is right on regarding the GM and Lexis hybrids. The point of a Hybrid Tahoe to save money, gas or emissions is an oxymoron (emphasis on MORON!)

I would no buy a Tahoe hybrid to save gas than I would walk to the moon. His point is that with the exception of the Prius most of the other cars are a suckers bet, to which I agree. Clearly if you switch from a Tahoe to a Civic you are going to save gas, money and emissions. The net from the civic hybrid from the Civic is way smaller. Same with the difference between a Camery and a Prius.

What is true, and is not stated the piece is the economics of the Prius are way better than any other hybird, even given it's higher initial cost. Having said that, most of us bought our Prius not save gas, or money or even emissions, but rather because we saw it as A: Cool technology, Bushing the envelope of technology so that it gains mainstream acceptance, C: Because we thought it was the right thing to do. The price of gas has only made our choice more financially friendly.

When Toyota comes out with mainstream plug ins, there will be early adopters who buy them for the same reasons. By the conventional Prius' will have become even more mainstream.

Icarus

Yep. Brian Walker.
Editorial Intern.
Now there's a moniker to instill trust.

I agree with your points, but will point out that just about every analysis (including my own) assumes constant gas prices.

Just because you think it will be 6 or 8 and someone else thinks its 1 or 2 and someone else 20, doesn't mean that will be true, and the author or analyzer CAN'T and shouldn't use your "biased" assumptions.

Perhaps these analyses should just show you what payback times are associated with what gas prices. In theory they could use some gas price prognostication from some "reputable source", but who really knows what prices will be ? If you (or I) or anyone knows for pretty sure, you (or I etc.) can make a FORTUNE in commodities and shouldn't be "wasting" your/our time here with such valuable price forecasts.

I agree with your reply to the clearly biased article 100% but also agree with Michael Reid's suggestion of factoring in the payback time at various petrol pricing levels... But Bravo for spreading the Prius gospel! BTW I have slowed down to 55-60MPG on the freeways and further improved my coasting technique when coming to a stop sign or light and over the last 400 miles have averaged 54.2MPG (according to my Prius' computer)

Thanks for the link. I emailed him also with the note above. What an idiot!

Maybe a better description of the highway mileage is that, on the highway, the Prius can largely get by using just a 70 HP engine because it has the hybrid components to boost power when required in other situations. The hybrid components are what allows the Prius to have a gas engine that is right-sized for highway cruising efficiency, instead of over-sized as a conventional gas car must be.

Kudos for the point on resale value. The value of the car at resale ought to reflect the remaining gas savings available to the next purchaser. Thus, you effectively recoup the (capitalized value) of the future gas savings when you sell it. Or, in English, you get a particularly good resale value when the cost of gasoline is up, because the next purchaser is anticipating those gas savings. You said it right, this is just a different wording.

I've been a newspaper reporter and editor for 30 years and believe me, this was simply an attempt at creating buzz by writing a story that takes the opposite tack from the conventional wisdom -- no matter how much you have to contort the facts. It's an old trick that unfortunately never fails to get results. Months from now, you'll overhear idiots at cocktail parties say: "I read in the street.com that hybrids are all a bunch of hype." Almost makes you miss Art Spinella.

^^Hey new member making 1st post. Hiya, Hayai

I definitely miss Art Spinella. Really looking forward to an energy cost analysis of GM Volt. With high development costs and low production, it's going to be like $100 per mile.

Couldn't resist:

Rob

As an future Editor, you can't say he's not off to a good "spin the story" start.

ZC1

Or Michael Moore.

ZC1

Little known Michael Moore fact: He dropped out of the University of Michigan-Flint, where he wrote for the student newspaper "The Michigan Times" and worked for a single day at the General Motors plant.

Cool fact. I like many things about him. I'm not blind to his faults but enjoy him.

Perhaps there was an ulterior motive to TheStreet publishing that article. Since the website serves to provide news and advice on stock market investing, I am inclinded to think that they have published the article in hopes of driving down Toyota's stock price, then jumping at the opportunity to buy at a future depressed stock value.

I agree you shouldn't buy a Prius right now. Not unless you can get one at MSRP.

Another argument is gas prices may tumble soon--when OPEC or world governments do something about oil futures speculation. The British Finance Minister was talking about this today. The Euro countries are also affected. Something will happen soon. They can't tolerate oil prices going up much further. They will have to come down closer to $100 per barrel.

That's not true. Even Consumer Reports in their hybrid hype article assumed gas prices of $2/gal for 3 years, then $3/gal for 1 year then $4/gal for the 5th year. Of course, at that time prices were $2.50/gal and they've only gone up since. Over the last year, the raw product for gas has increased faster than gasoline prices themselves, so it's likely gas prices will continue upwards just to take current oil prices into effect. If you look at a chart of gas prices over the last 5 years, you'll see the trend is up. To assume otherwise would take an explanation of why you think the current trend will be broken. There may be some speculation in today's prices, perhaps 15% (pick a number, I used my trendline below), and gas prices could easily have a short-term swing into the mid-$3's, but for year-over-year, the trend is clearly up.

Dropping down to $100/barrel is hardly a tumble, considering that until this January, $100 was considered an improbable ceiling.
I like this argument - "something must happen because people can't tolerate these prices". Or what? Will we stop buying it? Will we go back to whale oil? Will we open up ANWR and magically get as much as we need in a couple months? Will we suddenly shake the sheiks into realizing it hurts us to give them that much money?

High prices are here to stay. The better you protect yourself now, the better you'll be in the future.

Here are some "real world" facts that the goof-ball who wrote the article could have used. maybe he wouldn't have come off looking so uninformed about what's really happening. I have posted this on two other Hybrid sites to get the word out.

My '04 Prius turned 200,000 miles on 6/12/08. I bought it on 1/15/04.

Has anyone else out there got that many miles on one?

I am self employed and use the car for both business and personal use. I do not baby it for mileage, but estimate that over the life (so far) of the car I have averaged around 47-48 true mpg. I have kept a record of every mile driven and every ounce of gas that I have used, and will, when I have time, post a "lifetime" average.

I am in and out of it around 30 times a day, leaving it in "ready" mode all day some days.

Here is a quick summary of everything that I have ever fixed or replaced on the car. The upholstery is holding up very well, even though I wear jeans most of the time, which are kind of an abrasive material. I have worn a hole through the floor mat and into the carpet where my right foot sits. The "damper" on the top clamshell glove box gave up long ago, because I open that around 30-40 times a day too. The plastic cover over the accessory power outlet has broken off.

All of the above can be expected in a car that has seen the heavy use that mine has.

Now for the FEW things I have replaced. 12volt battery---130,000 miles. serpentine belt/plugs/water pump---155,000 miles. The plugs were still plugging, the belt was still belting, though frayed, and the pump was still pumping, but "weeping". I just replaced it because the belt was off. Just bought my fourth set of replacement tires. Still the ORIGINAL BRAKES. Replaced one key fob battery. I am in the car at least 8 hours a day, sometimes 6 days a week. It is very comfortable. I can make a U turn on a residential street. Parking is a breeze. Plenty of storage nooks for my "office supplies". I use the nav. system all day. The key never leaves my pocket for those 30+ times I get in and out of the car.

Bottom line: I don't know how Toyota knew how to make the perfect car for me and what I do, but they did. Even putting aside the great mileage and the "feel good" aspect of doing the right thing for the planet, it would still be the best car I have ever owned, by far.

Wow, Carbot, what a GREAT first post! :welcome: Welcome to PriusChat!
What kind of work do you do that you're in and out and driving all day? You may know about the Prius Taxis in Vancouver BC, and other cities, but you're the first individual I've heard of who puts that much milage on a Prius.