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Thoughts on my strange service experience?

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by n2nascar, Jun 27, 2014.

  1. n2nascar

    n2nascar Junior Member

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    At about 92k miles (2 months ago), my 2005 Prius started having a battery issue... When going about 40 mph and above and not having to stop or apply my brakes, my battery would drain (to just 1-2 bars) in about 5-10 minutes and not recharge until I got into stop-and-go traffic (this would happen about 9 out of 10 times). Mpg was still pretty good during that time, but when I finally had to stop, the engine had to kick on to recharge the battery and my mpg just sucked...I went from averaging 45 mph to 39 mph.

    I took my car into the dealership for them to have a look and to also perform my 95k service. When I told them that I feared the battery was dying, they said that the good news was that I had another year on my warranty (not sure if the battery warranty is extended in California). The service advisor eventually came back and stated that they had also observed the battery charging problem and that they had to pinpoint the exact problem (either an igniter, a battery cell, or something else that I can't remember). They even started the process of getting me a rental car for a couple of days. However, the service advisor then came back and stated that no problem was found...he even walked me back into the garage where they were working on all of the cars just to ask the technician working on my car if there was a problem...he also stated that no problem was found. When I asked how initially a problem was found and then suddenly not found, I really didn't get a straight answer (I should have pressed harder). Anyway...after 10 hours in the shop, they pulled my car around and the manager came out to speak to me...stating how the 95k service showed no problems and how no problem with the battery was found. When I asked about how to prove to them that there really was an issue, he stated that if the problem kept occurring I could bring it back in and they could have one of their tech leads drive it home for the night as kind of a road test.

    It's been five days now and guess what? The battery issue has not resurfaced. I'm totally confused... Could the 95k service somehow fix the battery?...I doubt it. Did they do something behind the scenes and not tell me? If so, why? Any thoughts that anyone might have would be greatly appreciated. I guess that I should be happy; however, I keep expecting the problem to resurface any day now...
     
  2. nh7o

    nh7o Off grid since 1980

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    First thing, remember that the car is a hybrid, which means that it does not rely on battery power to go at constant speed on a level surface. The engine is the only power source the car has. The battery only comes into play when speeds are changing, or on hills, or at low speeds when the charge is high.

    If your battery was discharging under highway speeds, it is a sign that the engine was not putting out proper amounts of power. It could be due to spark plugs, air filters, injectors, overheating, etc. It can happen due to a failed 12V battery that won't charge. Also any unusual drag such as low tire pressure or misalignment can also cause the same symptoms. Under those circumstances the car will draw from the battery to make up the difference, but that can only last for a brief while.

    A normal Prius keeps the battery SOC at more or less 6 blue bars when going at a fairly constant speed. So if the service tech changed any of the above factors and saw an improvement, then you are probably good to go for a while. The battery discharge you noticed was a symptom, not a cause.
     
    #2 nh7o, Jun 27, 2014
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2014
  3. uart

    uart Senior Member

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    Was this by any chance only happening in the first 5 to 10 minutes of the drive? If so then this is an important point to recognize.
     
  4. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    how long have you owned this car?
     
  5. n2nascar

    n2nascar Junior Member

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    nh7o:

    Thanks for your detailed information...it's really useful. Based on what you said, my guess would be that they ran a test prior to the 95k service and saw the battery drain like I did. Then...perhaps something in the 95k service (standard service + oil conditioner and fuel system cleaner), resolved the problem. Not sure why they wouldn't just tell me that though. I have taken a couple of 60+ mile drives since then and the battery charge is mostly staying at 6 bars (and occasionally going to 7, which I hadn't seen in a while).

    uart & bisco:

    I bought this car new in 2005...no battery drainage issue until about the 92k mark. Sometimes the battery drain occurred during the initial 5-10 minutes of the drive and sometimes it didn't. I typically drive it to a from work which is 11 miles away. I go to work on the highway with just about 1/2 mile on either end of the trip on city streets. The battery would go to 1-2 bars usually at the last 1-3 miles on the highway drive. So...in this situation, it occurred within the first 10 minutes of the drive. From work to home, I take city streets...mostly 40-50mph roads. I was always good for the first few miles (a lot of stop and go), but then I would hit a 4 mile 50mph stretch of road. If I made all of the lights, 9 times out of 10 my battery would be a 1-2 bars just before the end of that four mile stretch. I'd say that this would be 12-15 minutes into the drive. When functioning correctly (or what I believe to be correct), I do typically set a 1-2 bar reduction in the first few minutes, but then the battery charge typically goes quickly back to about 6 bars.
     
  6. vskid3

    vskid3 Active Member

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    How often does this happen? Has it happened more over time?

    Generally with problems related to the computers and electrical parts of the car, the dealer needs it to throw a code in order to act on it (unless something is obviously wrong). They probably tried to replicate the symptom, and even though they did, it didn't throw a code.
     
  7. Frank M

    Frank M Junior Member

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    If an engine is having performance issues a check engine light would come on and codes would be present in the ECM.
    You didn't state if you had a CEL on? Probably not or you would have indicated it.
    Also low tire pressure or alignment would not be enough of a drag to make a difference other than a very minute loss of MPG.

    If you did a lot of idling in traffic with the AC on it will deplete your battery charge very quickly. The engine will kick in to charge the battery while in traffic. Perhaps you started to move in traffic the same time the engine were to kick in.
    You say your battery goes down to 1-2 bars, newer cars are not allowed by the software to go that low before the engine starts.
     
  8. n2nascar

    n2nascar Junior Member

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    The problem started pretty suddenly a about two months ago...I just suddenly started noticing the engine kicking-on at times that it never had before (I have been going the same route to and from work for years) and my mpg dropped by 4-5 mpg in no time. No check engine light or anything. I forgot the mention that turning the AC on just killed the battery charge. I had to use the AC in 100+ degree heat one day for about 20 minutes...the battery quickly went to 1-3 bars and stayed there (mostly in stop-and-go traffic) until I was able to turn the AC off about a mile or so away from home and it went back to 5-6 bars. Anyway...like I said...it seems okay for now. Sure would like to know exactly what had caused the problem and how the 95k service managed to resolve it (at least for now).
     
  9. Frank M

    Frank M Junior Member

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    is there any correlation between when you began using the ac this season and the engine kicking in and subsequent drop in mileage?
     
  10. vskid3

    vskid3 Active Member

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    It could be the AC. If the car is warming up and the AC is running, it'll drink the battery pretty quick if you're driving in the city. It should keep the battery charged doing a steady speed on level ground, but it might not during warm up.

    I'm not sure how the Prius does it, but other hybrids will occasionally recalibrate the battery charge level by either charging it higher than normal or discharging it lower than normal. On at least Honda's hybrids, this can indicate a dying battery if it happens often.
     
  11. n2nascar

    n2nascar Junior Member

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    The onset of this problem did not correspond to the start of seasonal AC use...in fact, I've only used the AC once this spring/summer (a couple of weeks ago). It's just that the one time I used the AC, the battery drained much quicker and would never recover until I turned it off.
     
  12. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    the standard 95k service includes what? perhaps a dirty air filter replaced? oil conditioner is a useless rip off, but the injector cleaner may have fixed an engine problem.
     
  13. Frank M

    Frank M Junior Member

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    Injection cleaner can also be a rip off because all gasoline contains an injection cleaner additive among other additives.
    Also an (injection) misfire would set a code and CEL.
    OP states he had none so the engine was operating the way it is designed.

    Another way the battery gets recharged is by using the vehicle's forward momentum (its kinetic energy) , to drive the generator (alternator) on deceleration. You don't get much of this in stop and go traffic.
     
  14. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    hard to believe the o/p doesn't have a handle on his car ops after 95,000 miles though.