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Top 25 High MPG ICE/Diesels (any Prius Killers?)

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by wjtracy, Nov 11, 2013.

  1. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    My contrarian theory is the age of the Hybrid is mainly the age of the great Toyota Prius. If someone comes up with great ICE or diesel with high MPG (or mild hybrid) it could be backseat status (luxury car) for hybrids. Here are some contenders. I might add to the list the new FORD Escape looks more like a wagon with good MPG options (eco-boost 4 cyl), although to be a Prius killer probably cost has to low $20k's or less.

    25 Fuel Efficient Cars That Are Not Hybrids
     
  2. fotomoto

    fotomoto Senior Member

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    Many are diesels while most of the others require either premium gas, manual transmissions or a sub-compact two door body to get decent highway miles yet the vast majority are in the 20's for city mpg where it matters most.
     
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  3. Tony D

    Tony D Active Member

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    There are numerous small diesel cars here in Europe with better mpg figures than the Prius.
     
  4. jdenenberg

    jdenenberg EE Professor

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    Key word "small" as the Prius isn't a small car and look at average combined MPG, not just highway.

    JeffD
     
  5. Sergiospl

    Sergiospl Senior Member

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    So, we're talking about small Wagon Diesel boxes with manual transmission while Prius' Specs compare to these 2 cars?
    2013 Toyota Prius - Midsize
    [​IMG]Passenger Volume 94 ft3 (Hatchback) - Luggage Volume 22 ft3 (Hatchback)
    2013 Tesla Model S - Large
    [​IMG]Passenger Volume 94 ft3 (Hatchback) - Luggage Volume 26 ft3 (Hatchback)
    2013 Audi A7 quattro - Midsize
    [​IMG]Passenger Volume 94 ft3 (Hatchback) - Luggage Volume 25 ft3 (Hatchback)
    4th generation coming 2015! | Page 65 | PriusChat
     
  6. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Huh?
    Have they changed the web page contents?
    I'm just trying to understand were the list of "25 Fuel Efficient Cars" went.

    Bob Wilson
     
  7. fotomoto

    fotomoto Senior Member

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    Bob,

    Just click on the page numbers (1-27) below that copy to view them. Awkward layout.
     
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  8. walterm

    walterm Active Member

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    Make sure that for the European mileage comparison they're not using an Imperial gallon (larger than a US standard gallon), in addition to considering the difference in the size of the cars.
     
  9. Sergiospl

    Sergiospl Senior Member

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  10. Tony D

    Tony D Active Member

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    I agree. In my opinion, there are very few cars that can be compared to the Prius on a like for like basis. These motoring journalists seem to constantly try to compare cars that really have very little in comparison.

    That's the point that I was making, there are no real cars that are the same class, maybe except the civic hybrid or similar

    I didnt get to finish my point, was prepping the dinner! Lol
     
  11. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    Can we start with one (non-hybrid) ?
     
  12. zhenya

    zhenya Active Member

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    I think that in order to meet upcoming fuel economy goals, most cars will end up becoming hybrids of some sort in the not so distant future. The low hanging fruit of regeneration plus a better stop/start experience is too tempting to ignore.
     
  13. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    I thought the same until I saw the dismal fuel economy gains of the Malibu light hybrid from GM.
     
  14. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    At $3/gallon gas, its doubtful, even at $4.50/gallon. If gas goes up, maybe, but if plug-in prices go down, then their will be a shift to plug-ins including plug in hybrids.

    At $4.50/gallon gas, I don't really see hybrids without a plug getting over 10% of the market. That is a big jump from here, but far from most cars.
     
  15. zhenya

    zhenya Active Member

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    Future CAFE standards are not tied to the price of gas.
     
  16. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    If people don't want to buy hybrids because gas prices are low, then car makers can sell smaller numbers of plug-ins or pay penalties. Currently mercedes chooses to pay penalties, but will start shipping a plug-in they designed with tesla. All cafe standards can get you are choices. Starting in 2020 there are big bonuses for trucks, so we can expect some choices, but that doesn't mean they will sell.
     
  17. zhenya

    zhenya Active Member

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    Even so, I think that by that point, basic hybrid systems will have hit scales of economy that they will be included as a matter of course. As the methods are further refined they will get inexpensive enough that it will be ridiculous not to take advantage of that 'free' energy.
     
  18. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    I think ICE might have been the issue. The new 2.5L with start/stop has the same rating as the eAssist model.
     
  19. xraydoug

    xraydoug Active Member

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    possibly the new Accord. Lots of people like sedan instead of hatch or liftback. not sure of the numbers lets say 50/50 it would not be a prius killer but if it lives up to estimates it will be a camyr hybrid killer and I really hope it is. We need automakers to compete, so they will improve. with new competition we may see prius go to 60 mpg combined due to better hybrid components. we really like both our camry and c hybrid but I hope they keep getting better and the Accord may be the new best hybrid.

    I also think we will see plug in hybrids price reductions, and I think they will gain a lot of sales.

    If gas prices drop we should continue to push for higher mpg. and stop importing oil. one of the reasons gas has gone down in price is we are not using as much. I think a good part of that is people parking their gas hogs and driving cars that get better mpg. like out great little prius
     
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  20. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Sorry but that web page is too confusing. So I went to Fuel Economy and found the top 20 for each:
    • diesel
    • gas
    • hybrid
    I added a fractional counter to try and get some distribution of plot points and generated this chart:
    [​IMG]
    • diesels - suffer City MPG hit because they are generally heavier than the others
      • curious because diesel fuel has more energy content
    • gas - lighter than diesels, better City MPG
    • hybrids - City MPG is their "briar patch"
    • Highway - hybrids generally are doing better, not great, but better
    City MPG is a function of drivetrain efficiency and that is where hybrids excel. As for diesels and and gas, the gas cars are lighter, smaller, than the diesels and that lets them avoid the inertial losses.

    Highway MPG is a function of vehicle coefficient of drag. Curiously, some of the hybrids are doing better and the gas and diesels remain generally lower. Without a significant commitment to aerodynamic drag reduction, the diesels and gas cars are always going to be second place.

    Bob Wilson
     
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