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Toyota is comparing the Prius PHV to the Chevy Volt

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by Rybold, Apr 2, 2012.

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  1. Rybold

    Rybold globally warmed member

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    When I was at the Toyota dealer over the weekend, they had several Prius PHVs (Irvine, CA if you are wondering), with one in their showroom. The Prius PHV in the showroom had this comparison prominently displayed next to the car. This was clearly a Toyota Motor Corp marketing sign and not something the dealer came up with on their own:

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  2. cwerdna

    cwerdna Senior Member

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    Interesting... I wonder what GM's response will be. :)
  3. cproaudio

    cproaudio Speedlock Overrider

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    I find the driving range highly misleading. The range quoted is with no charge at all. Let's face it, people buy plugins for the sole reason for being able to plug in and charge. If each vehicle is plugged in and charged once a day and driven 40 miles a day, the Prius would use gas on 27 miles each day while the Volt would use gas on 5 miles each day. The Prius would use .54 gal of gas a day while the Volt would use .135 gal of gas a day. A tank of gas on a Prius would last almost 20 days while a tank of gas in a Volt would last almost 69 days. A Prius would have to fill up 18 times a year while the Volt would only have to visit the gas station 5 times a year. Prius would use 197gal of gas while the Volt only use 49 gal of gas. If gas price is $4 a gal for reg and $4.3 for Prem unl, It would cost about $788 in gas for the Prius while the Volt's would only cost $212.
    The Volt has been known to be driven 1000's of miles per tank while there are no documented PiP even breaking 1000 mile tank. Jay Leno's Volt is still on it's original tank of gas from the dealer when he bought the car a year ago. Who here is still on their original tank of gas a month after delivery?
    Option wise, the PiP Advance out do the Volt but the Volt traded all those gadgets for bigger battery pack.
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  4. Erikon

    Erikon Active Member

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    LMAO! I doubt the Volt is Leno's daily driver, probably only taken it out of his massive garage for promotional events!:p
  5. cwerdna

    cwerdna Senior Member

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    Speaking of cproaudio's stats, for those who missed it in the Volt vs. ____ argument threads, there is Volt Stats! Tracking real world usage of Chevy Volts in the wild.... I'd imagine the users there are a somewhat skewed self-selecting set though...

    C'mon Rybold, IIRC, you don't have a Prius yet. You gotta join! You know you want one. One of those members of the Prius family's itching to have you take it home. :D Pick one up the next time you're at a Toyota dealer. :)
  6. R-P

    R-P Member

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    Thanks for putting this into perspective. I am a fan of the Prius and not of the Volt (hence me getting their national incorrect advertising statements corrected :D(in the Netherlands)), but we should compare apples to apples.

    The Volt would get me to work and back without using a drop of fuel (even though I might charge it for an hour at work just to be sure). The Prius wouldn't even manage one-way. Massive difference for me, but not showing in the Toyota-comparison.

    Toyota did stress the reason for my initial resentment for the Volt: 4 seats, which makes it useless for my family of 5. :p
  7. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    Everybody wants to have their cake, and eat it too. If the drive is 40 miles ... isn't it supposed to be 40 miles round trip? Aren't both vehicles supposed to be able to charge "at work" (or where ever the spot is, at the 20 mile / return point)? In that instance, the pure EV never uses ANY gas. At that junction, everyone bounces back to the 'other' arguement of, "what if I'm driving 300 miles to Vegas?". At that point, the PiP becomes the champ again, passing the Volt's mpg's around mile 70.

    .
  8. cproaudio

    cproaudio Speedlock Overrider

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    I'd imagine his Volt hit 15k by now and still on his original tank. Also it is his daily driver. Jay Leno's Volt



    This is one of the reason I've not considered the Volt. It only seats 4 and smaller interior. Plus, I love my gadgets.
  9. Skoorbmax

    Skoorbmax Senior Member

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    Great deception--I mean marketing. Looking at that the Prius is way better, of course it misses one of the most key components which is EV-range. Nowhere to be found on that...
  10. drinnovation

    drinnovation EREV for EVER!

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    I doubt most people can plug in at work. I know I cannot. (When I really need it can go to a friends placen and run an extension cord out of the window, but that's not really plugging in.

    Been lots of discussion on the volt sites. about it. Even in places that support the concept, after a few people get to plug in it will become difficult to plug in as the standard parkng lotit just not setup for that type of infrastructure and installing a lot of charging will be very expensive an unlikely to happen.


    I see this poster, especially being so misleading about EV usage/range and its impact on MPG, as a sign that Toyota is a bit scared.
  11. fotomoto

    fotomoto Senior Member

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    Comments like this as well as PIP's available for rental or demonstrators and order cancellations lead me to wonder if demand, other than the initial rush by early adopters, is not all that strong.
  12. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    They all got the c instead. Since it's greener.:rolleyes:
  13. ksstathead

    ksstathead Active Member

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    I'm a homer for PiP, but omitting AER fails the 'fair and balanced' test.
  14. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    EVERY parking lot that's multi level has 120v and higher voltage ... elevators, lighting etc. Our structure's dozen 120v charging 'plugs' were put in by our company's electricians ($75/hr over head, + supplies) for less than $300 a piece. 120v is all you need to get an easy 10kWh ... or appx 30 traveling miles ... which is well within the average person's commute to work. Many states provide incentives to businesses, to get ICE transportation off the road too ... so that doesn't even count the possibility for payback in that sense. You don't HAVE to get J1772 format ... it's just not that hard for a company to move forward.
  15. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    Can anyone read the footnote on how driving range is calculated?
    Guess they are saying gasoline driving range 10.6 gals x 50 MPG.
    This is fair for a Toyota ad. We are not expecting Toyota to say the only thing that matters is EV distance. Rather Toyota is saying PiP, like the regular Prius, a full-service family car with no limitations and plenty of room.

    Right now I am sitting on the fence as far as plug-in, in any case. Fuel switching away from gaso is not a big priority for me vs. energy conservation. What is a little disappointing is the bigger batt does not improve MPG on gaso more dramatically.
  16. telmo744

    telmo744 HSD fanatic

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    Marketing omitted, but EPA sticked.
    Says 11 miles...

    By the way, why 7 out of 10 for smog tailpipe by EPA rating?
  17. Keiichi

    Keiichi Active Member

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    Looking at its comparisons... I think it is a bit nitpicky, almost strawman argument.

    As for the poster making Toyota scared... I strongly disagree. It's more of a marketing attempt. It is using more 'ideal' situations for the Toyota to make them look 'better' than the Volt.

    What will make the Plugin look better than the volt is the initial price. $32k starting versus the Volt's initial $38k before incentives. Some things such as the weight statistics might appeal to some, and the 'features' they try to hit on over the Volt are meant more to appeal to a person who does not do the research or look more into the vehicles. When I look at some of the line items, such as touchtracer - Ok... Why is that important that Toyota has it over the Volt? The way the poster is setup is to make people think "I get all this, and at a lower price."

    To me, that's marketing spin, and Marketing is about trying to get a customer to buy your product over the other.

    Doc, remember, don't assume this is 'fear'. It's simple marketing tactics. Fear would be to try and sell it and also go, "Them volts... They catch on fire... And they are useless." Right now, I think this is just trying to undercut the Volt, but hardly a 'fear'.
  18. ItsNotAboutTheMoney

    ItsNotAboutTheMoney EditProfOptInfoCustomUser Title

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    Well, the car is 123lb heavier, so it's not surprising to see little gain. The pack's 176lb compared to 118lb (Gen 2, same in Gen 3?), but there's also a charger and, I assume, a slightly heavier motor and inverter. It's also a Three +heated seats and the weight comparison may be with the Two.

    What I'd like to know is how much difference it would make to replace the liftback's battery with lithium. Maybe it'll be an option on the Gen 4.
  19. Jeff N

    Jeff N Senior Member

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    Good observations, but a minor nit. The PiP EPA electric range is 11 miles which already includes a mile worth of gas so the PiP in your scenario would use gas for 30 miles each day, not 27.

    While I'm nit picking, the Toyota sign says a cabin air filter for the Volt is "not available" but this is misleading. The Volt has a cabin air filter slot but the $10-$15 filter isn't installed at the factory. An owner or the dealer can easily install one in less than 5 minutes. I did it myself.

    Also too, the transmission description is misleading. It says the PiP is ECVT but the Volt is "automatic" but the Volt is ECVT except when it is being driven only by the large electric motor alone using a single fixed gear (like essentially all commercial EVs). GM describes the Volt transmission as an ECVT on their window sticker.

    Others have already pointed out the larger issue of the battery size and electric range being left off the chart.
  20. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    Reference?

    The list of feature comparison put it into perspective. Use some gas and get those extra features for lower price. The cost to operate is exactly the same per EPA label. Of course YMMV.
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