Toyota/Lexus hybrid unit sales history (USA)

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by mrv, Mar 3, 2006.

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Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by mrv, Mar 3, 2006.

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  1. efusco
    *Cross Posted elsewhere

    I would have predicted a jump in sales in Jan/Feb due to the tax
    credit as well as a drop in sales in Dec....but the numbers you post
    don't reflect that. In fact Prius sales are slower (due to supply
    issues?/limited releases to avoid hitting the magic 60k unit sales
    mark before the 3rd quarter?) in Jan./Feb. than they were in Dec.

    But there are HiHy's and 400h's sitting on dealer lots available and
    the credit and even the low interest financing are apparently not
    having much impact on those sales...I admit I'm a bit suprised by that.
    --evan
    efusco, Mar 3, 2006
    #2
  2. mrv
    I have read elsewhere that several dealers have been notified that the Prius deliveries are less than in the past, through at least the end of March, because of a parts suplly diversion to the Camry hybrid. Of course, that big snowstorm in Japan didn't help...
    mrv, Mar 3, 2006
    #3
  3. efusco
    That could be true...or it could be a cover story to limit Prius sales with the hope that some who were looking at a Prius will, instead, go for the Camry. Still, the potential benefit for Toyota if they can make the Tax credit extend through all of 2006 is pretty high, esp. if they can "find" a bunch more cars to release in that 3rd and 4th quarter for the hungry mob that's been waiting and waiting for their order to arrive.
    efusco, Mar 3, 2006
    #4
  4. malorn
    Toyota has missed the market by a mile on the suv hybrid? Who wants to pay a huge premium with a negligible mpg increase? ;) the prius has cooled but is still remarkably strong.
    malorn, Mar 3, 2006
    #5
  5. efusco
    "negligible"...hardly Wife got over 30mpg on a highway & interstate trip yesterday in our HiHy....oh, and I was happy to pay the premium for fuel savings, environmental savings, technology support, better acceleration (7.2 sec. 0-60), 53 more Horse Power, some very nice luxury features not included, quieter ride, CVT, extra safety features, electronic power steering and Toyota reliability. There's much more to the 'premium' than just dropping in an electric motor.

    MPG of our AWD limited City = 31, non-Hybrid = 18, almost 60% improvement...you call that negligible? I'll tell you, also, that real world hwy. mpg is better than the EPA numbers in the hybrid...but I can't prove that...even by the EPA numbers it's almost 10% better.

    If you want to talk about "negligible" mpg increase at a premium and "missing the mark" let's start a discussion about the Silverado "Hybrid" (sorry, I choke just thinking about using that word in conjunction with Siverado).

    Your turn.
    efusco, Mar 3, 2006
    #6
  6. malorn
    If the suv's are driven the way most americans drive the fuel savings is negligible. I have yet to see any review state anything else. Believe me most Americans are not going to pay a huge premium unless they think they are saving money in the long run.

    Yesterday i heard a couple lexus hybrid adds on NPR and they never mentioned mpg once. If there was a story there Toyota would not be exploiting it on NPR of all places? It may be great for your family but for most Americans and Toyota it is a bomb like the silverado hybrid
    malorn, Mar 3, 2006
    #7
  7. efusco
    50,000 HiHy's and 400h's sold in 10 months is a "bomb"?

    I guess we'll see who's right ultimately, but I think you're wrong. How much more will a GM customer pay for an SUV that has 53 HP more, leather interior, etc. that gets less gas mileage??

    Yes, when it comes to the pocket book those who want to save money will not consider either of these SUVs. But when you're talking about vehicles in the 30-50k range money is not the buyer's first consideration....any good car salesman could tell you that.
    efusco, Mar 3, 2006
    #8
  8. Jonnycat26
    Maybe you want to take a look at the figures again...

    I see 20,661 and 17,954 for the Lexus and Toyota respectively. That adds up to 38,615, which is signifigantly less than 50K.

    Toyota forecast their sales at 25K for the RX400 and 20K for the HH. I think they may have misjudged the market a bit.
    Jonnycat26, Mar 3, 2006
    #9
  9. efusco
    You didn't add in the Jan/Feb '06 figures...those are just the April-Dec. totals you're posting.
    efusco, Mar 3, 2006
    #10
  10. Jonnycat26
    Generally sales go on a yearly basis, and that does tie in nicely with the article where Toyota predicted their 2005 sales.

    But even if you add those, you're still about 5-6K short of 50K.
    Jonnycat26, Mar 3, 2006
    #11
  11. Tideland Prius
    Well then, it's not Toyota's fault is it now? Neither is it Honda's or Ford's problem.
    Tideland Prius, Mar 3, 2006
    #12
  12. espoafd
    Actually if you include January and February (11 months for Lexus and 9 months for Toyota)the number sold is 46,789. Closer to 50k than to 38,615
    espoafd, Mar 3, 2006
    #13
  13. micheal
    What are the expectations for 2006?

    Multiplying out the numbers for the whole year (assuming the number of sold per month doesn't go up) gets a little under 20K 400h and a little under 30k HiHy. This is probably on the low end, since the numbers for January and February increased. So it looks pretty likely for them to hit the 50K for 2006, assuming they have the same expectation.
    micheal, Mar 3, 2006
    #14
  14. efusco
    I put together this relatively comparable comparison at Edmunds for a Ford Explorer...hard to find a perfect match out there to compare the hybrid and non-hybrid Highlanders, but the Explorer is fairly close.

    Explorer Limited adds 92 HP, leather and a few other luxury features fairly comprable to the added features on the Hybrid Highlander limited over the non-hybrid Highlander limited. It's MSRP is ~$36,000

    Explorer XLT is relatively comprable to the non-hybrid Highlander. It's MSRP is $30,500.

    Both get 14MPG City (less than half the HiHy) and 20MPG Hwy (50% less than HiHy).

    MSRP for the Explorer Limited is only about $3000 less than for the HiHy limited. Explorer Limited has a little more HP (292 vs 268), but I'm willing to bet that the HiHy will dramatically out accelerate and will equal towing capacity (not listed on Edmunds).

    Once again, I'll pay the premium for the 'feel good' benefit. Some folks (maybe a lot of folks) won't right now, but Toyota's "bomb" will lead the way to show that this technology can make cars better... all cars, much as the Prius has very successfully done.

    Here's A Link to the Comparison at Edmunds--hope that link works.
    efusco, Mar 3, 2006
    #15
  15. malorn
    The forecasts are always done on a calendar year level. Jan and Feb will be 2006. I may be wrong but from what i know Toyota is scrambling for answers right now, especially in light of the '07 camry and the other lexus launch.
    malorn, Mar 3, 2006
    #16
  16. malorn
    Doc you are only correct if there is enough desire to pay the extra 7-8000 premium on the lexus. Toyota/lexus is having a tough time creating that desire right now. price is much less of an issue the higher in the price echelons you go, but so is gas mileage and dollars spent on gas.
    malorn, Mar 3, 2006
    #17
  17. efusco
    Ok folks, maybe I'm dense, but....

    400h
    April-Dec '05 = 20,661
    Jan-Feb '06 = 3,280
    Total 400h sales for 10 months: 23,941

    HiHy
    June-Dec '05 = 17,989
    Jan-Feb '06 = 4,894
    Total HiHy sales for 8 months: 22,883

    Grand total: 46,824

    So, I rounded up a bit, but that also only includes only partial months in April for 400h and June for the HiHy.

    Projecting out for a full year at Feb. sales rates brings the HiHy first full year sales to about 28,000 units (filling in first half of April '06) and around 33,000 units for the HiHy for the first year of sales.

    I just don't think that's bad at all.
    efusco, Mar 3, 2006
    #18
  18. malorn
    The point is it is considerably below their 2005 unit goals and the trend line is not healthy. You are right, time will tell but at this point i am sure way to much time is being spent on "how to create demand" and/or " how to spin" out of a potential disaster.

    If these two suv's were produced by GM, you would be singing a different tune. ;)
    malorn, Mar 3, 2006
    #19
  19. efusco
    They are not below unit goals at all...what numbers are you using? They are ahead of annual sales predicitions on both vehicles.

    And you're dead wrong, if these two SUVs were being produced by GM I'd be thrilled and chearing them on and considering buying them. The problem is that GM is NOT making the innovations and thus not even giving me an opportunity to support their efforts.
    efusco, Mar 3, 2006
    #20
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