Toyota new engines gain 10% fuel efficiency; up to 38% thermal

When has CR ever given Toyota a negative review? They love that carmaker.

I think few of these techniques will benefit the new Prius G4 (except DI). So 49 mpg highway instead of 48
- direct injection
- idle stop
- increased Atkinson expansion ratio (13:1)
- tiny displacement (1.3 and 1.0 liter)

The 1,3 is the only Toyota engine which sees 38% max efficiency..... it's highly unlikely Prius would be downsized that small. (The Honda Insight used a 1.3 and most Toyota owners say its underpowered.)

 

The Prius c got a poor review from CR.

 

I agree, they will make fun of it and fail to see the benifits. They even thought that the prius c was to slow. and didn't like the car. I love the car for what it is. and it has plenty of power in town, on the hwy with a load, know your limitations.

 

Over and over again, at every opportunity.

 

Hey I doubt we have to worry about toyota or peugeot bringing that aygo/107 beast of a city car to the US. Once you made the modifications to make it safety legal in the US and added shipping costs, the tiny city car would probably cost toyota more per unit than the upcoming yaris (or whatever toyota calls its replacement made with mazda's skyactiv). For highway trips and mpg, that next gen yaris should be much better, not only because the ice will be happier at lower more efficient rpms on the highway, but a bigger car should be less twitchy. We are still talking subcompact here. For city mpg, sure that teeny aygo will win, but if you are so concerned the prius c would outperform it ;-) Toyota has the teeny tiny iq that they export here, and sold less than 5000 last year

Prius c versus the upcoming yaris makes an interesting segmentation. The prius c will win on smoothness of power train and a great deal on city mpg. The yaris will be more fun to drive and less expensive, getting similar real world highway numbers on long trips if you drive at the same speed. You have the built in japan versus built in mexico, but I'm betting the new plant in mexico will comply with toyota reliability and quality standards. I doubt the yaris will canibalize many prius c customers, but the mazda joint development may halp toyota win some more subcompact sales from honda, ford, and gm. Its a good sized vehicle for ice improvements. The best highway mpg subcompact is not a city car but the ford fiesta ecoboost, getting 45 mpg verus the prius c's 46 mpg. Get to camry size though, and ice improvements only go so far, and hybridization makes a major difference.

 

I just watched CR's review of the Prius C and thought it was fair. (1) You have to keep in mind every car has flaws and its the critics job to point them out. (2) They said the C is noisy and rough ride, which is basically identical to the review they gave the insight & other compact cars.

 

Sure, but then again a large portion of two+ car families could easily get a "good enough" EV today for one of their vehicles, as well.

I'm guessing that 3600+ of those never saw any CR article so weren't giving any finger to anyone.


Mike

 

I saw the CR review and bought one anyway. but I am not giving anyone the middle finger.

 

The regular Toyota getting Atkinson cycle engines means the cost of "hybrid premium" will be lowered right? That's another way of looking at it. The start/stop system of non-hybrid could be a Trojan horse into HSD.

Next gen HSD is supposed to get 45% thermal efficiency. They had prototypes getting 42-44%, three years ago. We have yet to see if the development went smooth and would hit the 45% target.

 

I didn't think Atkinsonization had much, if any, production cost difference. There is the R&D cost of tuning the engines for commercial models, but that initial cost should be covered after the years of Prius and other hybrid production. The actual physical differences between an Atkinson engine and Otto are small.

The cams will be different for the valve timing. But their manufacturer isn't anymore involved than the ones for the Otto engine. The technology for the variable valve timing was developed before, and continued along side, for the their Otto engines. To get the higher compression ratio, the block is different, but the company can share that cost with a high octane Otto engine.

The majority of the 'hybrid premium' is the cost of the inverter, motor(s), and traction battery.

 

Agreed. However, HSD doesn't have starter, alternator, belts or a dedicated transmission box.

My point was, with the conventional cars adopting Atkinson ICE, EGR and EHR, they will be mass produced and the cost would come down even more.

 

The tumble intake ports and reworked piston shape should make it to the next gen hybrids, and using them in the conventional engines should reduce the cost for these hybrids versus only doing it for them. Toyota sells 14% of their vehicles world wide as hybrids which means the small mods for atkinson are probably already high enough volume for the 1.5L, 1.8L, and 2.5L Atkinson varients. The di + pi 2.5L atkinson in the LISh (not available in north america) probably would drop in price with more volume. The V6 atkinson ices likely are low enough volume that they could use help, but I don't see anything here about atkinson mode in V6 applications. For that perhaps the 2L turbo in development is the high efficiency choice.

Diesel cooled EGR is already in high volume. What toyota did in the gen III prius to combine it with EHR didn't require a part built for the tougher diesel applications. Denso took the toyota parameters, and made a lighter duty unit for the aqua (prius c) and camry hybrid. The next gen prius will benefit from this cost reduction. I'm guessing the units are now cheap enough that toyota is going to use them in some conventional applications. That decreases toyota's hybrid premium to their own cars, but their still is that cost versus other cars.
DENSO Develops it First EGR Cooler for Gasoline Engines / News Releases| DENSO CORPORATION

Other premium parts from the hybrid :
PSD -> probably high enough volume in the 1.5, 1.8, and 2.5 hybrid and ford 2L hybrid. They may be expensive in the other apps (volt, LRH, THH, GSH, LSH). Next gen should drop even more, with what toyota has learned on this generation.
Electric power steering - made it in conventional cars, no premium, but more R&D to do for steering feel.
Batteries -> nimh probably as low as they will go. lithium dropping fast, likely bellow nimh soon in all applications, already less expensive in many.
Motors -> volume is high enough, technology improving. Lower cost with every generation.
Electric Air conditioning -> introduced in the gen II, some more cost reduction in the gen IV, but now in volume for many conventional cars. Should be more efficient in Gen IV.
Braking -> other than the regen, there are extra parts, and feel in brake by wire. This should only be a small premium. Again R&D can improve feel.

 

Maybe Toyota will try putting a three-cylinder in the Prius just as GM is discussing for their Volt (to recharge the battery). That would give about 6 more MPG for both cars.

 

At least Toyotas' market is defined, can't say that for the Volt. It will be interesting what new engine design comes out for the Volt.

DBCassidy

 

Toyota increased ICE displacement from 1.5 to 1.8L to gain MPG.

More torque means ICE and PSD can be geared for lower rpm which boosted MPG.

 

In fact, cylinder volume helps MPG a lot. BSFC higher, at lower revs. Reducing number of cylinders may hurt NVH a lot, though.
Note that Volt ICE also drives directly in some conditions, which I believe GM will keep.