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Toyota November Tops US Electric Plug In Vehicle Sales For November

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by jsfabb, Dec 6, 2012.

  1. jsfabb

    jsfabb Active Member

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  2. Electric Charge

    Electric Charge Active Member

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    The bigger story is that there are thousands of people each month buying electric cars :)
     
  3. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    ...and we helped (Prius Chat)...
     
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  4. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    PiP was #1 but if you include the sales of C-MAX Energi, blended plugin outsold Series plugin (Volt and Karma) 2:1.
     
  5. Jeff N

    Jeff N The answer is 0042

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    Except that Volt isn't a series plugin and it's a bit silly to be comparing the sales of these other plugins to the $100,000 Karma.
     
  6. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    I know Volt's gas engine can sometimes power the wheels mechanically (with a clutch) as well. I am calling it a Series plugin because that's what GM hyped and marketed Volt as -- gas engine only used as a generator.

    Here is the graph of how the launch sales compare:

    PHV sales 9 months.png
     
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  7. Jeff N

    Jeff N The answer is 0042

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    Assuming the gas engine is running (due to an empty battery), the Volt operates in series mode at slow speeds and during high torque demand as in brisk acceleration. Once you have accelerated and settled in at speeds above 35 mph it switches to power-split serial/parallel blending much like a Prius or C-Max Energi.

    GM disclosed this over 2 years ago, well before the first Volts were purchased and delivered to customers in December 2010.
     
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  8. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    Right, that doesn't stop many from calling Volt as Electric Car. Chevy continue to refer to the gas engine as "generator for longer trips".

    There is narrow window for Volt to operate in power-split mode since the torque from the ICE is very limited. Therefore, it is mainly a Series plugin.
     
  9. JMD

    JMD 2012 Prius 4 Solar Roof

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    It seeems that Hybrid and EV vehicles are starting to take off. That is great news for the environment and also consumers as they give less money to Big Oil Companies and more to themselves.
     
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  10. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    What you call 'well before,' most people realize is a few months. And that, after YEARS of GM hype that the car was an "EREV."

    Poor GM, hoisted on it's own petard.
     
  11. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    Demand for HOV access more likely.

    I think the HV and EV car markets are quite separate, and anticipate the HV market to bloom as fuel prices increase. I doubt EV will take off until a doubling of range at current battery size and costs occurs.
     
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  12. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    Volt is bad news for the environment in many states.

    [​IMG]
     
  13. Jeff N

    Jeff N The answer is 0042

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    The 2013 Volt is effectively an EV for the first 38-54 miles and after that switches to a hybrid mode similar to a Prius.
    Unlike a PiP, it has an electric heater and will not start the gas engine due to accelerator demands. The Ford Energi C-MAX and Fusion have an electric heater but will still switch to gas under strong acceleration or at speeds above 82 or so.
    The EPA highway test spends the majority of its time in power-split mode even though it varies its speed quite a bit. A Volt driving on the highway or country roads at roughly constant speed or mild acceleration would normally be in power-split mode. In stop-and-go traffic you would typically be driving on battery alone (as in a PiP) unless you were stuck in a really long stretch of bad traffic. This is why I have a 30 day average of 46 mpg in hybrid mode driving in a mix of highway (55-60 mph) and city traffic.
     
  14. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    As if the majority of who bought these cars really care about the distinction. Combining the Volt and Energi numbers shows that plug ins with AER greater than 20 miles outsold those with 11 miles or less.
     
  15. Jeff N

    Jeff N The answer is 0042

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    The Volt is an EREV and it's a useful distinction. The 2013 Volt is an EV regardless of acceleration while there is still grid charge left in the battery unless temperatures fall below 15F or so. When it is very cold, the Volt cycles the gas engine occasionally to help generate cabin heat (my 2011 Volt has a temperature cutoff of around 26F).

    Although the PiP can easily be kept in EV mode with the heater off and during moderate acceleration, it is not difficult to cause the gas engine to start under typical driving conditions. This is a useful distinction.
     
  16. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    The only distinctions they care about probably are the price and midsize interior, provided by both blended plugins.

    The want for more EV miles or cleaner more efficient gas engine will depend on one's commute and ability to charge at work.
     
  17. Jeff N

    Jeff N The answer is 0042

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    The Volt is good environmental news for owners in states where it is actually purchased (around 1/3 in CA). The Volt is good CO2 news in any state if the owner has solar panels or is paying a (small) premium to purchase renewable energy. At an annual average of 26 kWh / 100 miles, I would be driving with less CO2 emissions in most states than a 50 mpg car like the Prius while enjoying an EV drive most of the time. It is easier to exceed the EPA EV efficiency estimates than to exceed the EPA gasoline driving estimates in most areas.

    It all comes down to the individual driving pattern, local utility grids and alternative options, and local climates. Individual drivers need a range of vehicles so they can choose what works best for them.
     
  18. Jeff N

    Jeff N The answer is 0042

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    I see few people (other than you) obsessing about the few Sq. Ft. of interior space which separates the Volt and PiP. The price difference between a base model PiP and Volt is about $2,500 after federal tax credits. It mostly comes down to ones driving pattern and whether you frequently need 5 seats (I almost never need more than 4). But, heh, diversity and choice are good and all versions of the Prius are still an awesome choice for many.
     
  19. JMD

    JMD 2012 Prius 4 Solar Roof

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    Economies of scale, as production increases the cost to produce will decrease.
     
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  20. JMD

    JMD 2012 Prius 4 Solar Roof

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    If the Prius PIP sold a EV-40 and a EV-10 would it kill the Volt Sales? In other words if a PIP with a 40 mile EV range be the nail in the coffin of the Volt?