They won't use LiIon because of safety concerns? maybe they can license the technology from Tesla:
http://www.teslamotors.com/engineering/safety.php

EVerything I have read only says Toyota won't offer the plug-in option yet. They have committed to putting lithium ion batteries in the 2008 Prius. It still won't plug in yet but can get 90 mpg because of the extra battery capacity and it's lighter weight.

In fact Totoya is making their own batteries so they will have full control of the quaility and supply. This is a big step ahead for all drivers.

I feel that in the very near future they will offer the 2 3, or 4 pack of ectra battery capacity and a plug. When you want to plugin you can get power at about 80 cents a energy equivelent or just be lazxy and use gas at whatever it may be . Off peak NASA extimated we could charge 80% of the vehicles with no new power plants.

I dunno, Toyota might be spreading rumors around so people don't get too excited about the next gen Prius and stop buying 07s like hotcakes. I'm sure whatever battery technology the next Prius has will be improved over the current Prius, as well as new styling and technology innovations that will be introduced for 08/09. I have confidence that Toyota will do the right thing, which is more than I can say for G.M. with its lousy 40-mile range Volt that can't seem to find any batteries. What happened to the 150-mile EV1? 100-mile RAV4EV?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(toyotablackbox @ May 30 2007, 07:50 PM) [snapback]452390[/snapback]</div>

This is my take as well. Earlier this month an Engineer for Toyota said that they'd have the LiIon batteries in the 2009 modell in 18 mo's. There's all this hype about 100+ mpg vehicles and I think this is a splash of the cold water of reality being thrown on the hype.

A 55H / 60C ( new EPA rules ) Prius using similar HSD technology but using LiIon batteries seems more likely for the next Gen IMO.

I doubt Toyota will back down from using lithium-ion since both the company president and head of hybrid development have said the LiIon cells were ready for use.

More to the point, the whole 3rd gen Prius has been designed around the smaller, lighter LiIon packs with a much higher voltage, so to switch back to old-skool NiMH would require almost a complete redesign. I doubt they'd do this at such a late stage in the day.

I hope since Toyota is considered a big 'US' company, that it doesn't fall into the oil Syriana trap.

ie: Big Oil influencing car manufacturers.

We need this technology now!

With chevron holding large-scale NiMH battery tech (after GM sold it to Texaco, later becoming Chevron...stupid, stupid) I would bet the oil companies are pulling out all stops to get a hand in the lithium market to continue their stranglehold.

Why not?

We are just not smart enough as a species to do the right, sensible thing for the greater good. If it makes money for a few powerful, then no holds barred. If it does MANY, MANY people good, then crush it and hope no one makes a movie about it.

Well... when I got to the worry of "leaking acid" I pretty much gave up what they had to say.

Li-Ion is here folks. Built right you can fire a bullet through it, shove 30kW into it in under ten minutes, Recharge it 3,000 times.... and it doesn't turn around and bite you. I'm not buying this "coverage." The last official word from Toyota is that the next gen Prius WILL have Li-Ion. Won't have a plug though!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(finman @ May 31 2007, 10:48 AM) [snapback]452675[/snapback]</div>

Sometimes you sound so much like me, that I get scared.

Well, my new mantra is WWDDD (what would darelldd do). I think I may have one too many Ds...

Heh, heh, I said darelldd do.

So long as you stay outa the tabloids, you'll be my hero!

Solar panels running a house and a car...that's so far in the future...what are you thinking, ha, ha.

If you read that article carefully, you can see that the so-called "report" comes from a company who has a stake in upgrading existing Prius vehicles. Naturally, they wouldn't want anyone waiting for a real Toyota product. That would kill their retrofit sales.

It appears to be completely unfounded information. The writer's phrase "...maybe heard from a janitor?" all but says it's rumor.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(darelldd @ Jun 1 2007, 12:20 AM) [snapback]453050[/snapback]</div>

Seriously?! Where did you read that? Are they commercially available?

Man would we ever love those in the R/C electric flight hobby. Plenty of those have gone down (or up) in flames, along with nearby equipment. The Li-Ion/Li-Poly rule of thumb in the hobby is you're asking for trouble if you puncture it, exceed the current ratings (1C charging, labeled rating discharging), overcharge it (by a mere .25V/cell), overdischarge it (under 3V/cell no-load), overheat (+160F) or freeze it, etc., etc.

I know the hobby isn't an apples-to-apples comparison, but it's generally on the cutting edge of battery technology. The stuff you mention would be leaps and bounds ahead of the best I know of, though!

As I recall, NiMH was rather unstable during its development stages, so there's certainly hope for lithium-based technologies. I'm just surprised to hear tell of it being here now.

- Justifyd

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Justifyd @ Jun 4 2007, 10:06 PM) [snapback]455385[/snapback]</div>

The Altair batteries are certainly the real deal in terms of safety, quick charge and cycle-life, but you may still prefer to use Lithium-polys for your R/C toys.

The Altairs are at around 90 Wh/kg, while the LiPoly stores around 200 Wh/kg. So although you risk horrendous fires and terrible cycle life with the LiPolys, you would get twice the flight time!

Rumour has it that A123 are working on a high-energy version of their technology to bridge this gap too... goodbye gasoline!

Darelldd's right. Sheesh, don't I just sound like a broken record!

Google Li-ion bullet-proof or words to that effect. I've seen the footage from a company doing this type of battery work. Can't say for certain the name of the company. Make google your friend and you'll see that gasoline is sooooo much more dangerous, you'll wonder why it "won" out over electrics so long ago...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(clett @ Jun 5 2007, 06:23 AM) [snapback]455568[/snapback]</div>

I think I saw their press release on the news earlier today. No mention of price, but they're obviously pushing to get to market.

You definitely solved the mystery of why I hadn't heard about those cells. Power-to-weight ratio is crucial for R/C flight, so Altairs aren't quite a match for that market...at least, right now. NiMH (at 70Wh/kg) is more cost effective in that density range.

Thanks for the info. That's pretty cool stuff. Thought for sure it was too good to be true, and you know how technology rumors go!

- Justifyd

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(finman @ Jun 1 2007, 04:59 AM) [snapback]453133[/snapback]</div>

You've got it backwards. Solar roof running a car is not in the future. It's the rest of us who are living in the past. If solar roof running a car were in the future, Darell would not be doing it yet. B)