Toyota to make plug-ins standard for Prius from 2014-Nikkei

It is my understanding that when Cobasys patents expire the standard pack non-plugin will be ~13KWh with no added weight or space taken.

BTW those who think that current non-plugin will be obsolete, yes it will as much as the 2011 Plug-in will be at that point. 2014 will be time to release Gen IV anyways.

 

Based on the 2nd gen's 6 year run, the 'regular' Prius would get the full makeover the 2016 model year and would show up in 2015.

I would NOT want a car smaller than the current regular Prius. I have no interest in the Prius c, not the Prius v.

 

That Reuters article is vague garbage.

 

uhm, we now know they are building batteries in house, stop the nonsense... I quoted you their info just weeks ago.

... whole article seams as bad translation from japanese, and since it is from "unnamed sources" i wouldnt trust anything too much.

For me it seemed as if even base prius will be pluggable which certainly wont happen, so it is either them not translating it well or nikkei hearing only parts of possible plans.

 

That's ok, there is no penalty for not plugging in. They'll still have the cleanest gas engine and highest cordless MPG.

Who knows, maybe the base model may have 2 miles range but it will be a plugin which is totally optional.

 

I think you need to learn about toyota's supply chain. The batteries will be produced at PEV, which is 80% owned by toyota, 20% by panasonic. Panasonic bought sanyo for its lithium technology. This technology will be in the future lithium batteries coming out of PEV. I don't know if this makes it way into a 2012 prius phv, but it would certainly make a 2015 my prius.

It seemed pretty easy to understand. Sanyo is saying that the cost of their lithium car batteries will come down to 50 yen per watt. At the current exchange rate this works out to $620 US / kwh. Nissan, Ford, and GM lithium cost is between $500-$800 US/kwh so this number agrees with the rest of the industry. LG and JCI-saft may be taking losses to win battery contracts, at this point we don't know.

The nonsense is that lithium in future toyota plug-ins will remain at $1200/kwh. If this was the case there would be something seriously wrong with their battery manufacturing. I hope this happens, but right now the plug in prius is only a rumor. If it does happen, we can probably put to bed the idea that lithium is too expensive, or unsafe, or unreliable.

To add to usb's point. We don't know the minimum size of the battery. The base car might only have a 2kwh battery that costs toyota $1200. Plugging it in will allow you to preheat or pre-cool the cabin and add 3 miles electric range. The weight would be around the same as the current nimh. The base battery is likely bigger, but 2kwh might allow for the plug-in only design with better high speed engine off and better brake regeneration.

 

As I understand, the PHV pack has 3 units - 2 for EV mode and 1 for hybrid mode.

If I only had a choice of a PHV in our current size Prius, and I cannot plug in, what would be the fate of the 'other 2 units' of that PHV pack if I never plugged it in, for years?

IOW, what happens to an 'enginer' (sp?) or A123 pack if one gets lazy or loses the plug for a year or two?

 

i am talking about original article while you are talking about other things that you always talk about (sanyo, toyota costs, etc)... and as much as we know, toyota built their own lion factory to lower the costs. what chemistry they will use at the end, who knows.

but again, thats not in the article.

article says that every gen4 will be plugin - i will tell you right now that it will never happen.

why? because it costs money and it is pointless... it would be utterly pointless to have 1.2mile plugin hybrid because it adds costs and it is useless.


and whoops... guess what i found here:
Toyota Denies Prius Range To Go All Plug-In Hybrid By 2014
Toyota Denies Prius Range To Go All Plug-In Hybrid By 2014

 

These are demo vehicles. I fully expect that the gen IV prius will be different and not have "units" that the system can not charge without plugging in. I seriously doubt that the prius phv will be released with 3 units, the rumors are 1 or 2.

 

....

 

This thread is very informative, Thanks for posting this reference!
I did not know the details of this Patent. I certainly enjoyed reading it.

I really would like to know:
1. Did Toyota stop making the RAV4 EV because of battery patent problem, battery supply shortage?
2. Is it possible to build a 13 kwh Nimh, the size and weight of the current Nimh in the Prius?
3. I am getting a sense from this thread that Toyota, just like the previous RAV4 EV may use Nimh for plug In vehicles?

 

"I don't know of any serious person in the automotive industry or in the lithium industry who believed that there is a serious, long-term supply problem," he says. "In fact, for the next 10 years there will probably be an oversupply of lithium because so many companies have now moved into the market."

Lithium Battery Industry Keeps Going, And Going ... : NPR

 

That's a great question. The prototype plugin rotates the sub-packs if you plug in regularly. I don't know what happens if you don't plug it in for a long time.

 

As I said, it is only a rumor. Toyota is majority owner in a battery company, PEV that supplies it with Nimh batteries. It is this company that is the likely supplier. It will most likely use sanyo technology as that is part of the partnership, has the best li technology of the partnership, and has been doing the li anouncements. It is unlikely that that use more expensive technology. Which part don't you understand?

Most of us don't think it is pointless, nor is there any indication it would only be 1.2 miles.

Toyota Denies Reports That All Priuses Will Be Plug-in | PluginCars.com

Interesting denial.

Will toyota make a dedicated plug-in? There will definitely be a prius that doesn't come with a plug as I alluded to before.

 

it is certainly not your fault and it was good article to post, but the basic premise that all will be plugins is simply not believable.

why? because if they can make 22k plugin, it means they can make 20k, 18k, 16k, whateverk non plugin . Prius is still very expensive car in most of the world.

 

Did you catch this in one of the articles?

"When it goes on sale next year, the Toyota Prius Plug-In Hybrid is still expected to feature a price premium of around $5,000 to $8,000 over the current $35,000 sticker for a range-topping Prius (note that the first 60,000 examples sold by Toyota will attract a $2,500 Federal tax credit).

Wow, these articles are garbage. They are claiming Prius PHV may come out $40 to $43k. Sure, that'll happen. Base model PHV Prius will be around $30k, give or take a few. You won't see any PHV's shipped with 17" wheels.

 

NiMH works, but Chevron owns control of the batteries, GM and Chevron killed RAV4-EV

Why buy from the EV-95 sellouts?

After reading Patent encumbrance of large automotive NiMH batteries and some old posts written about GM/Chevron and the RAV4 EV with Nimh battery!

While some members are discussing whether all Prii will be plug-Ins or not, I, myself, am amazed at what the Nimh battery in the old RAV4 EV was able to do, up to 120 miles. I would like to know more about this type of Nimh.

Q. When there is no longer a Patent issue come 2014, does anybody thinks Nimh will find itself into Prius Plug-In instead of Lithium Ion.

 

i think Toyota has said they are hoping for 3k, right?

 

One of the follow-up comments on the AutoBlog website pointed out a mis-translation: Toyota said all Prius will have plug-in as a standard feature <add-on>, not a standard feature. That is actually great news, since it means people can tack plug-in on to a base Prius. I wonder if the add-on will cost the same regardless which model is bought.

Kudos to SpyWolf for the use of (rare) common sense.