TTAC: Ask The Best And Brightest: Is Fuel Economy A Luxury Item?

Discussion in 'Other Cars' started by cwerdna, Apr 26, 2011.

  1. cwerdna

    cwerdna Senior Member

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    Ask The Best And Brightest: Is Fuel Economy A Luxury Item? | The Truth About Cars
     
  2. 2k1Toaster

    2k1Toaster HID Guru

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    "40mpg cars"... sigh.
     
  3. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    Nice writing style, too bad he cannot reason. The Prius EPA is not 40 mpg, and it very rarely blows up at 100k miles.

    The author is just another jerk who think he should be paid to conserve. I hate to say this, but seeing Karesh's name in the article has convinced me to not register my car at his site.
     
  4. cwerdna

    cwerdna Senior Member

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    Yeah.... :/ 40 mpg on the EPA highway test while getting low 30s or high 20s for combined mileage.
    I'm not familiar w/Karesh. Something wrong w/his previous writings?

    The method for the EPA numbers on the Monroney sticker has been changed at least twice. Once was starting w/model year 08 and the previous time, from what I understand was in the early 80s. Apparently prior to that early 80s switchover, the numbers on the sticker were the uncorrected/unadjusted EPA dyno numbers w/o the 10% downwards fudge for city and 22% downwards for highway.

    The 2011 Prius' uncorrected EPA mileage figures are 71.82 mpg city/69.55 mpg highway and 70.78 mpg combined. The 2011 FFH's numbers are 56.5/51.6 and 54.18 combined.
     
  5. Skoorbmax

    Skoorbmax Senior Member

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    He didn't say that the Prius was his 40 mpg examble, but as noted the Prius is rated for combined 50 and when compared against a camry combined 26 or whatever it is, then the math is a 24 mpg variance, not 10.

    If 50 mpg two decades ago was 35 today how the heck were those numbers allowed? I find EPA ratings a very meaningful starting point. No 35 mpg car has ever gotten 50.
     
  6. krelborne

    krelborne New Member

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    Elantra. The 2011 Accent gets 36 highway.

    I'm not sure what this guy's exact complaint is. He wants to be offered a super cheap new car with no stereo, AC, power steering, but fairly good highway mileage? A base Accent is $10k. Is that not cheap enough? What's the target price here?
     
  7. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    First, it was more than 20 years ago. My 1984 EPA label already had some discounting (not sure just how much), and my 1986 had the full 22% highway / 10% city discounting that lasted through 2007.

    Second, with patience and the proper situation, you can get the CAFE / undiscounted-EPA figures. I've done it in all my cars from that 1986 onwards, though only under the best conditions.

    Third, people drove different then, so the gap between EPA and real world had not grown as large as in 2007. The national 55 speed limit was actually enforced in some parts of the country, many cars still lacked AC, and most drivers didn't race from stoplight to stoplight and up onramps as fast as today, because they couldn't. The horsepower wars had not advanced to today's bloated levels.

    Fourth, CAFE / EPA is based on straight gas, which was about the only fuel available then. Now it is uncommon, most drivers are now stuck with E10.
     
  8. cwerdna

    cwerdna Senior Member

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    Don't know besides the points the fuzzy1 mentioned, but perhaps there was some public outcry over this. The Truth About EPA City / Highway MPG Estimates - Measuring Fuel Economy - Car and Driver briefly talks about it. I was very young back in the early 80s.

    A lot more great info at http://priuschat.com/forums/other-c...uth-about-epa-city-highway-mpg-estimates.html. :)
     
  9. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    The short answer is that the numbers back then applied to ~ 30% of drivers, and the numbers now apply to ~ 80% of drivers.

    Of course any one driver can usually choose which group to belong to. A lead foot is not congenital.

    I personally find that EPA is completely wrong. I get 70+ MPG, and EPA says 50 MPG! WTF ?! ;)