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VENTING about tire shop and wheel torque...

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Main Forum' started by AdamKPL, Apr 24, 2010.

  1. AdamKPL

    AdamKPL Member

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    Need to vent about a tire shop experience at Town Fair Tire in Middletown, CT. I took my Prius in to get all 4 tires changed to Yokohama Envigors ($465 mounted, balanced, 2 wheel alignment). First I got into a dispute with the front end rep when he said I needed a 4 wheel alignment (instead of the 2 wheel free one) - he said he does one every 10k - I told him if he has a full thrust body or w/e its called alignment every 10k I'd like to buy all my used cars from him. Anyways here is the part that royally p-ed me off.

    Last year I warped the rotors in my wife's car because they tightened up the lugs too much. The manager then refused to even listen me and claimed they always do it right. So I told them at the desk to make sure it's torqued, then told them again. After that I left a note on the dash asking them to torque it between 80 to 90 lbs (their sheet states that the recommended is 76 lbs). Hour later job is done and I go out and check the torque and its between 110 and 120. I ask the manager to come out and look (by now I'm heated and we've got 3 techs, store manager, and parts manager), here are the excuses in order:


    1. I'm using a torque wrench incorrectly
    2. I'm not supposed to torque the vehicle when it's standing on wheels on the ground
    3. By setting it to 100lbs and gently touching the wrench it's adding 30lbs (despite movement of wrench being less than 1 cm)
    4. They never torque it to recommended torque bc its too low
    5. My torque wrench is broken
    6. The technicians don't speak english and didn't know i wanted to "correct"
    7. mistakes happen
    I told the guy to stop calling me a liar, they redid it in front of me, I checked it, and left. Honestly this makes me mad considering how many people are riding around with maxed out lug nuts....What do you all think?
     
  2. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    My only thought is that you should use 76 ft.-lb tightening torque, as some posters have experienced broken lugs.

    110-120 ft.-lb would be OK if you were working on some large 4WD vehicles, but that's way too much for Prius.
     
  3. Joe 26

    Joe 26 Member

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    My thought is: why did you go back there after they messed up your wife's car?
     
  4. triumph1

    triumph1 Member

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    1 person likes this.
  5. wick1ert

    wick1ert Senior Member

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    I was having an issue with the local NTB a few years back when I had my maxima. They apparently over-torqued a few of the lug nuts and it ended up jacking up the lugs themselves. When I was back in a week later (the tires needed some balancing, alignments, etc when I got the car) they told me that someone over-torqued the nuts and they would need to replace the lugs at $x. I told them that they were the last ones to touch them, so they must have been the ones to over torque them and so I wasn't going to pay them to fix what they broke. Luckily, they ended up replacing them at no financial cost to me (it cost me a couple extra hours of my time, though). Needless to say, I haven't gone back to them in quite awhile. I prefer the local Firestone or Just Tires stores.
     
  6. Dark_matter_doesn't

    Dark_matter_doesn't Prius Tinkerer

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    I had a similar problem with a Les Schwab tire store in my area, but the vehicle was my daughter's Corolla. They WAY over-tightened the lug nuts, and when I confronted them (after having to change a tire on the vehicle) they tried to prove the lug nuts were OK by trying to loosen them with a torque wrench set to the right value. The wrench screamed as the guy tried using it like a breaker bar (proving the nuts were too tight), then he baldly lied to me that they were fine.

    I haven't been back for many years.
     
  7. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    good idea, thanks! i'm amazed at how many shops don't care or have untrained/unqualified people doing the work. especially tire shops where that's practically all they do.:cool:
     
  8. triumph1

    triumph1 Member

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    I rarely deal with "tire shops", or battery warehouses. I usually buy my tires off of tirerack.com, and have them shipped to either myself, or a reputable repair shop with a tire machine. Fortunately, the couple "tire shops" in my small town have guys that are over 30 years old, speak English, and care about what they do, so the couple times I've had to use them, I've had no problems. They even mounted a car tire on the back of my motorcycle rim when most of the National chains wouldn't touch it. This is a small blue collar town, with older guys working in the shops though. Most of what I see working in the larger cities are punks, kids, and have "communication barriers".
     
  9. Ct. Ken V

    Ct. Ken V Active Member

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    Hey, AdamKPL,

    I too have a beef with my nearest 2 Town Fair Tire stores. Last year (no, it must be longer---I replaced the tires at 55,000 miles & I now have 93,000) I went to Town Fair to buy 4 new low rolling resistance tires before I went in to the dealer for the oil change (so I wouldn't have to pay for a tire rotation). Two days later I got into the dealer for my appointment & they showed me a missing wheel cover/trim ring. They also said it was missing likely because the tire shop had used the wrong balance weights on the outsides of the rims (clip-ons are O.K. for the back sides but they interfere with the proper mounting of the wheel covers/trim rings, so only stick-on weights should be used for the outsides).

    The service manager gave me a ball park figure for a new wheel cover/trim ring of around $63 or $64 plus tax, so I went fuming back to Town Fair to make them pay for a new cover. They claimed they always use the clip-on weights & never have anybody complain. They do have the stick-ons but only use them on special cars (they don't consider the Prius special). They also claimed that I couldn't prove that their use of the clip-ons caused the loss of my wheel cover/trim ring. I told them to call the dealer & talk to the service manager. I bought the new wheel cover/trim ring when I was at the dealer because I had a really good coupon (that was about to expire & I didn't want to lose out on) that took the wheel cover price down to around $44. I really wanted Town Fair to pay the full reduced price & informed them that it was a bargain by showing the the parts invoice, but they would only meet me half way on the issue (& gave me back $22).

    At the next service interval (60,000 miles) I decided to go back to Town Fair for the free tire rotation instead of paying $25 or so for the rotation at the dealership. BIG mistake!! I watched through the window at the tire guy working on my car. I could only see what he was doing on the passenger side of my car & I saw him put all 10 lug nuts on that side by hand & then use his pneumatic gun to zip on 8 of them. He had to stop & get the key for the 2 locking lugs on that side but I saw him do one wheel's locking lug before somebody stepped between us & blocked my vision of him working on the other one.

    Well, 2 days later again (while at the dealer for my oil change) it was pointed out that I had a missing locking lug nut (I had only driven about 100 miles since Town Fair had worked on it) on the side that I had been watching. The dealer said they can get new keys individually, but not the locking lug nuts separately (only as a complete kit for $59).

    So back to Town Fair again to complain about the carelessness of their people [not only in the above 2 incidents with my Prius, but a couple of years earlier I had also watched one of their people break an outside rear-view mirror off of our other car and another time put a massive dent in the driver's door of another customer's car (while working on my car 2 bays away)]. The worker had borrowed an overhead air hose from next to that other customer's car to work on the passenger side of my car. When he was through (& with the pneumatic gun still attached), he gave a quick tug & then let the air tool go (forgetting it was not on the hose directly overhead), so as it started to retract it swung over & hit the door of the other car.

    The kid who had worked on my Prius said that it came in with one lug missing. It hadn't, because when I took the trim rings off [to prevent them (with their track record) from doing any damage], I noticed they were all there. Besides, if one were missing, wouldn't a responsible tire shop inform me of such? Anyway, they told me they could order just one locking lug nut for me, but I told them that that only applies for keys. To get a locking lug nut they only come as a set of 4 with the matching key for those 4, so they would have to buy me the $59 kit. At first they didn't want to do it, but when the manager called the dealer & it was confirmed to him, he finally ordered me a new kit. I haven't been back to Town Fair since I picked up that kit.

    Even though I have been paying the $25 or so at the dealer for my tire rotations, at least things go a lot smoother without having to fight for my rights with the irresponsible people at Town Fair. They also screwed me up many other times before the above mentioned incidents. They were always over-tightening my lug nuts on our other cars over the years (never using a torque wrench or torque bar until the manager caught them one time after I had complained numerous times), so that I couldn't ever do a brake job or a tire change at home without first going to a garage to have them crack all the lug nuts loose & then I would re-tighten them by hand & drive back home to do the job.

    The other 2 troublesome incidents were when they used to put the lug nuts onto the studs by shoving the spinning air gun onto the stud instead of starting them by hand first. After the first time (when I went to do my next brake job) it took me about a half hour to work off the cross threaded nut & it was too hot to touch for almost 10 minutes after removal. The stud was all messed up, so I had to go to the dealer to buy a new one. And I had to pay my mechanic to press the old stud out & to install the new one. A short time later when I went back to Town Fair to have them re-mount some different tires before I sold that car, one of their workers did the same thing [with the spinning gun containing the lug nut & just jamming it on (again, instead of starting by hand first) on the same hub (not sure if it was the newest lug though)]. Only this time the nut wouldn't move any more before the nut ever touched the wheel. I called him a stupid jerk & told him that was he same hub I just recently had work done on to correct for the same problem they had caused last time they had their hands on my car. On my way out I told the manager what had happened both times but let him off the hook this time telling him the car was being sold. I also told him he wouldn't being seeing me back there any time soon (which I stuck to for a long time until one of my son's friends came there to manage that shop). However, he didn't stick around that long & was gone by the time some of the other stuff happened to me (he was the one who caught the worker not using the torque bar or torque wrench).

    P.S. The problems with the Prius (missing trim ring & missing locking lug nut) happened at the Vernon, CT store because I had stopped going to the Manchester, CT store where all of the other problems had occurred.

    Ken (in Bolton,Ct)
     
  10. danl

    danl New Member

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    Overtorqueing happened to me before as well. Usually when I replace my tires, I make sure to loosen them and re-tighten by hand them when I get home.
     
  11. samdaman

    samdaman Junior Member

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    My Toyota dealer regularly over torques after rotation -- maybe because customers don't re-check after 50 miles? They also inflate all four to 32. First step when I get home is to get out the torque wrench and the air hose. For which, I have the privileged of paying them $30 or so [last I looked at the rotation cost]. Sure, I could go to where I got the tires for the lifetime free rotation, but till I retire [ha -- re-tire], it's not yet worth two stops and two waiting rooms. And I like having that dealer stamp and check-marks.

    It just torques me off [yeah, I know] when it would take so little to do it right and still make money at $30.
     
  12. a_gray_prius

    a_gray_prius Rare Non-Old-Blowhard Priuschat Member

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    I got my Volks mounted and installed by a local race/speed shop. They hand-torqued the lugs in a cross pattern to the recommended torque. I would highly recommend finding a local shop that works on race cars if you want a job done right.
     
  13. cairo94507

    cairo94507 Active Member

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    This is a very common problem. I go to Big O for my tires; they are close. I have watched their employees, mostly non-English speaking, (part of the problem?) use a torque wrench like a breaker bar. I stand there and as they tighten the lugs I hear the torque wrench "click" and they just keep turning until they can't. :eek:

    I went and spoke with the manager and explained the problem. I said you have to teach them how to use the torque wrench. I have my own high end torque wrench and I always loosen and then torque my own lugs to 76 pounds.

    The employees just do not listen or care. It is a little troubling. I used to go to America's Tire Store and they did the same darn thing.