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Virginia "Hybrid Tax"

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by greekchampion04, Feb 1, 2013.

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  1. greekchampion04

    greekchampion04 Junior Member

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    "Hybrid Tax" Protested in Richmond | NBC4 Washington





    This is beyond stupid and I hope it does not get through.
  2. carnac767

    carnac767 Junior Member

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    How about a fee on stupid politicians? I know that stupid politicians is redundant.
  3. winnertakesteve

    winnertakesteve Member

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    Unless I am misreading their "justification", they've got it totally backwards. Raise the gas tax if you need more money, and let people pay proportionately for the resources they consume.

    Further, if you're taxing people as compensation for lost gas tax revenue, you ought to also tax people who only drive occasionally or not at all. But no one would stand for that. So instead you target a small group that hopefully won't be able to stand up to bullying.
  4. Eclipse1701d

    Eclipse1701d Prius Enthusiast

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    This is typical politics at its finest. Target a minority of your contstituents to raise the money you need rather than the majority by raising the tax at the pump.

    In their mind, raising the tax at the pump will virtually ensure death to their political career. Just targeting Hybrid Owners, not so much...

    It's not about right or wrong any more. It's so sad...
  5. rico567

    rico567 Junior Member

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    Well, I hate to go against the flow, but isn't some kind of differential taxation inevitable? Fossil fuel use IS going down, and that's what has historically provided the revenue for the roads we all use. With the electronification of cars, some kind of flat per-mile tax seems the easiest to implement, in the long run, although I suppose the final system will be positively byzantine in its complexity. Anyone who thinks road use taxation isn't going to change had best hope for flying cars.
  6. mikefocke

    mikefocke Prius v Three 2012, Avalon 2011

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    They'll privatize all the roads and then tolls will take the burden off the states. This will nicely separate out those who can afford to pay and those who can't and are stuck on the local roads spending their time.

    Roads are all political. I live in a state where they just built a beautiful divided bypass of 8 miles around a town of 12k people. Yet they build toll roads in the congested areas of the major metro area 50 miles away. When I look at the road signs on that bypass they direct you to the tiny town where the current congresscritter lives, not the logical 20 times bigger city that is at the end of the road the bypass dumps into.
  7. iClaudius

    iClaudius Active Member

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    It is particularly dishonest as well as stupid. US gasoline consumption has been on a steady increase for the last 50 years. The recession (not hybrids) saw a small,temporary drop in gasoline consumption on what will be a continued increase overall.

    The tax on hybrids is exactly that. Totally crazy, every reason for US to cut oil use but here are elected officials proposing policy that will increase US oil use. Anything that cuts oil use is patriotic, stuff like a tax on fuel efficiency that increases oil use is unpatriotic.
  8. winnertakesteve

    winnertakesteve Member

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    i do see your point about it being an infrastructure tax that was being charged indirectly to begin with, and now the indirect source is drying up, so to speak.

    i think this mostly leaves a bad taste my mouth (and i'm not even in the states) because there's no way it can be applied consistently and fairly.

    gas-only vehicle users will pay a range of amounts depending on how efficient their engine is and how much they drive. that encourages people to drive less when possible, and drive a more efficient vehicle, which works well from a conservation standpoint.

    but now alternative fuel vehicles will have this flat rate fee (on top of whatever gas taxes they already pay, in the case of hybrids), regardless of how much they actually use the car.

    to me, this seems to promote two things:

    1) alternative fuel vehicles have yet another cost barrier/stigma associated with them, and this will potentially slow adoption over gas-only vehicles
    2) a flat fee for a variable usage encourages higher usage. i.e. you chose to drive somewhere not because you need to, but because you are trying to get your "money's worth"

    both of those outcomes seem to encourage wastefulness, and thats what i find most distressing. that said, if they did take this opportunity to switch over to some sort of a mileage-based tax that reflects usage of what you're actually paying for (infrastructure), i'd say more power to them!
  9. Jollyman

    Jollyman New Member

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    Congress MANDATED fleet MPG increases that are guaranteed to lower the rate of increase or maybe even to decrease consumption.
    Congress MANDATED emission controls to reduce pollution.

    It is then proposed that those who do the MOST to support the policy goals of the above legislation are punished.

    The hypocrisy and stupidity is staggering.

    Also, someone should point out to CONgress that Hybrids are not ALTERNATIVE FUEL vehicles. They burn gas, just a bit less.

    Perhaps the day will come when fully electric vehicles make up enough of the nation's cars to justify a transportation tax on electricity used to charge cars. Perhaps.
  10. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    mass governer patrick has proposed a mileage tax, but now he seems to think an increase in gas tax would be better. not sure what changed his mind.
  11. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    ....hey cool there is another thread on this topic but I am glad to know I am not the only one taking action on this ....see my letter under Dumb Idea of the Week

    My argument in VA hybrid owners already getting hit hard on annual property tax so no need to further gouge hybrid owners.
  12. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web 03 and 10 Prius

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    Virginia and Maryland are listed at #7, 257 people per Prius, and #8 , 260 people per Prius. In Virginia, I suspect the Prius are concentrated within a two hour drive of the DC metro area area along with a smaller radius around the various colleges. Yet the Virginia Prius owners seem helpless to effect political change in Richmond.

    When we lived in Virginia in 1977-84, I remember their personal property taxes were significantly regressive, hard on lower income folks. So this type of personal property tax has history in Virginia. Yet I understand one governor 'reformed' personal property tax, a popular move at the time.

    The natural consequence is to move hybrid (and electric?) sales toward gas and diesel only vehicles. This will also sell and export more petro-dollars, further robbing the Virginia economy of revenue from the previous, disposable income of fuel efficient hybrid owners.
    • Virginia hybrid owners need to let the owners of businesses know when they pay any bill it is with the money they save from their hybrid ... every bill except the gas station.
    Because the tax burden is not performance based, it will especially hit the less efficient hybrid vehicles the hardest. As the MPG rates between a gas and hybrid model becomes smaller, this tax in effect subsidizes the less efficient vehicles.
    • Virginia hybrid owners need to let car dealerships know that this is a gas and diesel subsidy tax and gut hybrid sales.
    But let's not ignore the elephant in the room:
    • 'Whack a hippy' tax.

    Bob Wilson
  13. El Dobro

    El Dobro A Member

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    Don't give the politicians in NJ any ideas, they tax the hell out of us already.
  14. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    ^^^ both NJ and VA have a north/south thing going on, with the north being the more populous in both cases. In NJ, the more populous north controls politics, which we always hated in South Jersey (since we got the landfills, etc.). However, in VA the populous north are newcomers (blue) and tends to get pushed around a bit by the rest of the state (red). My impression anyway, having lived in South Jersey and North Virgina. Just my luck I am always in the weaker end of the state.
  15. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    Today we may hear the VA outcome!
    Sounds like- (1) proposed hybrid tax hopefully dead, (2) state gasoline tax is probably still alive...don't know where that leaves us, they could defer or increase taxes some other way.

    The one tax increase coming is the expected sales tax on on-line purchases, but this at most half the $$ needed for the road projects.
  16. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    Here is apparent status as of today:
    1. Hybrid tax proposal dead (even the repubs did not support)
    2. Gasoline Tax - hold the same, no change
    3. Northern VA is being given approval to raise state income tax +1% on itself for roads/transportation.

    VA Senate Passes Income Tax for Transportation Bill - Leesburg, VA Patch

    So in other words, repubs do not want higher taxes to pay for roads, but its OK if the Northern VA dems tax themselves for it. This is possibly a partial victory for North VA, as currently we pay the taxes but the roads are built in the other districts.

    In any case, totally unexpected outcome. It is not clear if North VA would actually do the tax, but the repubs can say politically they addressed the transportation issue and provided a solution. (not yet law howver)...at issue among other things is North VA is extending DC Metro out to Dulles IAD airport, and needs the money.