Fuel Economy Focus of Toyota R&D

"the battery pack is half the size of the older model’s"

Is that a good thing or a bad thing?

We were expecting the power density increase from the electric motor and the inverter as seen in the Camry and LS600h.

But half the battery size? WOW, I wasn't expecting that. From the material analysis, the battery pack was suppose to use 67% times more active materials. I am not sure how this can be.... Maybe bi-polar NiMH? Gotta be....

Smaller size is preferable so we have more hatch space and the rear head room too.

That would most likely mean lighter too. How about available energy? We'll need to see. If the new pack is bi-polar, the energy density can double so the actual capacity may remain the same.

more power in smaller package = very good...

smaller usually means lighter, more efficient, and cheaper to produce. Unless it is a Dell ;-)

Why not the same size with twice the range?

it should actually have bigger range than before... maybe actual article says more about that...

Lion? by 2010

1 - 6 smaller? so a 1.3 liter engine?

The Japanese are masters of miniaturization, so I would expect things in the New Prius to be smaller. I wouldn't worry about a physically smaller battery pack. I'm sure there are many ways (chemistry, cell construction) to make a physically smaller battery without sacrificing capacity.

I would also not be surprised if the engine has a smaller displacement. Perhaps Toyota is going the route of adding a turbo or Kompressor, aka Mercedes style, to the Prius engine. This ads an interesting possibility...perhaps a forced air induction system can even be electrically driven on the Prius? What advantages could this bring?

The electric motor may be 16% smaller, but the gasoline engine is a 1.8 litre.

Toyota CFO and Head of Investor Relations: "Gee, if we give them half the battery, then that means we can make and sell twice as many Prius cars next year, right?"
"Uhhh ... yeah, you would be right but" "Excellent! Chop the batter size in half, and sell twice as many Prius cars next year!"

and electric motor is bigger, while being 16% smaller (should have 60hp output vs 25 right now), and also battery should have more capacity while being 1/2 smaller than before...

Hi spwolf,

The present MG2 is 60 hp. But, in EV mode it only has about 28 HP available from the battery. 60 HP is needed to accomadate the MG1 output, and battery output similutaneously during WOT.

If they put in a smaller battery, with less power, then they could reduce the size of MG2, assuming MG1 power output stays the same, for an economics solution. Which means the bigger engine is going to be used more, and is geared so that a smaller fraction of its power goes to MG1 (but same as in the 1.5 liter Prius, most likely).

What this means is a less torquey low end accelleration. Probably something similar to other cars would result. Which is disappointing. The present Prius is pretty slick in how one can out manuever standard cars that try to block you taking your merging turn in the 20 to 45 mph speed range.

But this is all speculation until we actual get full details.

you are making wrong assumptions here - battery is smaller in dimensions, but it is of larger capacity... and motor should have 60 hp battery output, which is more than one in camry hybrid has, hence motor will be more powerful than before as well...

Hi spwolf,

The second generation Prius MG2 is larger than is what is in the Camry right now. Seems odd, but the Prius was designed with an engine smaller than can run the car alone, but the Camry uses a very similar engine to what is available in the base level Camry. So, the Camry hybrid system is more of a FE compromise, and power assistance device. Still, the Camry hybrid does get significant FE improvement over the Base Camry. But think if they put a 2.0 liter engine in the Camry hybrid, with a 90 HP motor?!

It's not a plug-in, so range doesn't come into it.

There's diminishing returns with a larger battery when only using the ICE as an energy source. A larger battery only helps in situations where the current system has excess power but has to throw it away, like on long downgrades.

A bigger battery helps with a plug-in hybrid as it acts as an additional energy source, rather than as a buffer.

I'm guessing Li-ion. I'm not sure the energy capacity of lions, tigers or bears