Went out and test drove every hybrid car: here's my thoughts

well, since I just took out a Honda Insight, Civic hybrid, Malibu hybrid, Ford Fusion hybrid, Nissan Altima Hybrid, Toyota Camry Hybrid for a test drive(s) let me throw my two cents in there.

Honda Civic and Insight Hybrids: To me the Insight isnt even in the same league as the prius (the civic is). The insight is cramped in the front, the back seat is non existent (reminds me of a toyota celica back seat) the trunk is miniscule and dont even think that you can lift the trunk floor up for more room (the spare tire takes up all of the room down there)
When it comes to the hybrid part of the equation. In my opinion there is NO comparison i can make that would have the IMA come out ahead of the HSD found in the prius and fusion. it was like night and day. The assist was very noticeable, the engine was very loud. I stopped at a light on a slight incline and when I released the brake to go I started to roll backwards quite a bit, then the engine decide it should turn on to give me the ability to roll forward ( didnt touch the gas at all).

The civic I feel is a much better choice even with the ima's short comings (bigger car and more fuel efficient) The civic is much larger and handle alot better than the insight. I really didnt like the instrument cluster of either car, it was just toooo much going on and road noise from both cars drove me insane. The only reason people seem to buy the Insight is the price. Starting at 20k the EPA mileage at 40/43 (city/hwy), The civic hybrid is 40/45 starting at 23k; out of the two I would pick the civic because it was far larger interior and handled better. If the difference of 3k means that much to you, buy a honda fit! the fit is far larger (than the insight) and starts at 14k, EPA est. 27/33.

Nissan Altima Hybrid: Was the most fun to drive, one of the fastest hybrids of this group, but not without its short comings. the interior and exterior are great, the instrument panel is great, and simplistic, but maybe a little too simplisitic. plenty of room front and rear, but with an EPA estimate of 35/33 it isnt an improvement for the highway mileage over the non hybrid 4 cylinder. There is a notcibale shutter when the gas engine kicks in especially from a complete stop, that I found very distracting.

Toyota Camry Hybrid: I found nothing to write about more than that it is totally average. Driving dynamics: average. Interior: Average. Fuel economy: average; with an EPA estimate of 33/34 it is the worst of the japanese automakers (even those using toyota's hsd system!!). I have no idea why the camry is the way it is but Toyota needs to fix it fast. I would not buy a Toyota Camry Hybrid for any reason. The competition is doing it better (yes i would pick a civic over the camry)

Ford Fusion Hybrid: Went I sat in the car I said wow, when I drove the car I said wow again! The ford fusion is the most fuel efficient car of its size 41/36. Is more fuel efficient in the city than a car half its size (insight) and offer tons of room. The ford fusion ties the altima in sportiness far. It handles very well, excellerates fast and there isnt a noticeable shutter when the ICE starts. I am as far as you can get from the typical "ford guy". But I would buy this car in a heart beat. The instrument panel gives a lot of information, but it doesn't visually attack you. Every gauge is well thought out and can be tuned to give you how much info you need. This is done by having lcd screens imbedded in the gauge cluster right next to the speedometer.

Malibu Hybrid: There is nothing to say about the hybrid other than it is utter crap. The Malibu as a standard gas only car is ok. handled decently, was pretty roomy, but when it comes to this mild hybrid; to put it bluntly, calling it a mild hybrid is calling it something far better than it actually is. EPA est 26/34 a 1 mpg improvement for both city and hwy is absurd for the hybrid premium. The Instrument panel was really plain, nothing spectacular but it was nice.

I personally own a prius 04, and I feel it still stacks up well against the competition 5 yrs later. I will update when I can get my hands on a '10 prius but my run down of my favs:

1.Ford Fusion hy
2.Toyota Prius (gen II)
3.Nissan Altima hy
4.Honda Civic hy
5.Toyota Camry hy
6 Honda Insight
7. Chevy Mailbu hy (if I could place it lower I would)

I've read nothing but good reviews for the Ford Fusion. Glad Ford got it right. Hope they can capitalize on the good publicity.

To the OP, that's great that you tried all of these out. I've only driven my Prius, the 2010 Prius briefly 2x, the HyCam for work 2 days (as a loaner) and the NAH a bunch of times (my mom has one).

Yep, the Altima hybrid definitely is the fastest amongst the bunch. The power difference between my Prius and the NAH is night and day. Actually, the EPA #s of 35/33, 34 combined is an improvement over 4 cylinder automatic Altima, even on the highway. That latter is rated 23/31, 26 combined.

In Consumer Reports testing, here's what they got:
4 cylinder CVT: 18/33, 25 overall
hybrid: 27/36, 32 overall

Well, the HyCam is heavier and a lot more powerful (188 hp) than the Insight, Civic Hybrid and Prius. The HyCam, not surprisingly felt a lot more powerful than my Prius. The Civic Hybrid in all the acceleration tests I've seen is for some reason significantly slower than the the Prius (despite idential HP ratings and very similar weight). The HyCam would leave it in the dust.

My loaner HyCam had the nav system and premium stereo. The stereo was EXCELLENT for a non-luxury car and it blows away the "premium" stereo in my Prius. I also liked how its MFD showed you mileage in 1 minute intervals (vs. 5 in the 2nd gen Prius) and how the bar graph didn't reset when you shut the car off.

FWIW, the HyCam did somewhat better than the NAH in Most fuel-efficient cars.

The HyCam's suspension is considerably softer than my Prius and the car felt larger and less nimble (handling-wise) than my Prius.

For me (w/o knowing the price of the 2010 Prius), if my Prius were to get totalled and I had to replace it w/a new car, I'd probably consider the NAH (due to the $2350 tax credit), Fusion (after the 1st model year, but it seems spendy), and the 2010 Prius.

yes combined the altima hybrid does have higher rating, but 2 mpg on highway is hardly what i would call an improvement; when the mild "hybrid" Chevy Malibu gets better highway mileage than the NAH.
Now that I've driven a Fusion hybrid, its harder for me to make the case for the NAH (I'm looking for a new car since my prius got totaled). Everything that the NAH has/can do, the FFH can do, with better mileage at that. Same sized ICE, slightly larger trunk and what I have to say is a far superior instrument panel (in the ford). the NAH and FFH are priced exactly the same, so if the FFH seems spendy then the NAH is too spendy.

Yeah, you're right. The EPA highway # on the Malibu Hybrid is 1 mpg higher than the NAH. I just looked at the CR results on the Malibu Hybrid and they are 18/38, 27 overall.

However, in 2010 Ford Fusion Hybrid vs. Camry Hybrid, Altima Hybrid, and Malibu Hybrid - Sedans/Comparison Test/Reviews/Car and Driver - Car And Driver (download the Fuel Economy chart), the Malibu Hybrid was the worst on their highway loop. I do think it's a little unfair that they gave the NAH 3rd considering how well it did in terms of performance (but poorly in refinement, which I tend to agree with) because of the $2350 tax credit on the NAH vs. $0 for the HyCam. The ICE shutdown and startup and power transition between the two on the NAH are noticeably harsher than on my Prius and the HyCam. Nissan seems very aggressive about shutting down the ICE. (It's nice that there is an ICE off (EV mode) indicator in the dish).

Do keep in mind that the Malibu hybrid is only 164 hp combined vs. 198 hp combined for the NAH. In the above review, the Malibu hybrid had the dubious distinction of worst acceleration and fuel economy of the 4.

Regarding FFH vs. NAH pricing, hmm. They aren't priced the same in terms of MSRP ($27270 for FFH vs. $26650 for NAH) but their invoices are within $12.

However, looking at Edmunds, the TMV in my area (95120) shows the FFH going for MSRP vs. $1484 below MSRP on the NAH BEFORE the $2000 incentive. With destination charge and incentive, the "Customer Cash Adjusted True Market Value" for the NAH is $23861. The TMV for the FFH is $27995. The incentive ($2000 cash back) is also mentioned at http://local.nissanusa.com/crossregional/index.html.

The tax credit on the FFH is now $1700 ("Ford's Fusion-Mercury Milan Hybrids OK'd for $3,400 Federal Tax Credit" Green Car Advisor) vs. $2350 for the NAH.

So, in my book, the FFH is the spendy one. Assuming Edmunds' TMVs are right, the NAH is $4784 cheaper.

I am curious to drive the FFH. I've only seen it at CES in January 09 and the Detroit auto show. At CES, I had the chance to play w/Sync and plugged my iPod into it via USB to try out the voice commands.

Hopefully you can hold out long enough to try the 2010 Prius. The EV, eco, and power mode buttons and charge/power screen (http://www.autobloggreen.com/photos/2010-toyota-prius-first-drive/1450573/) are very compelling to me. I'm guessing I could eke out 55+ lifetime mpg w/my commute in a 2010 Prius w/help of those aids vs. my current 46 mpg lifetime on my 06 Prius.

well i spoke with the ford dealership when I went for the test drive, asked about the wiggle room on the fusion, he said there was some, "enough to make a deal". I didnt know about the 2k back on the Altima. I'm not going to be jumping right away into a new car, I'm going to wait until the new prius comes out so I can test drive it first. I'm very intrigued by the '10 Prius, but if that doesnt fit the bill, I will probably buy a FFH. Only thing I can say is the FFH is getting great reviews and its for good reason. I said wow when driving the FFH, not just wow ford made this?!? but wow this car rocks. According to edmunds.com for what I want for the FFH it will be almost 31k and the NAH will be almost 33k, so after everything is said and done, 1k is not going to break the bank (especially when the more expensive car gets better mpg)
I'm still want to go with the prius and have an affinity for gadgetry. I could get a prius maxed out for what the FFH and NAH offer base (fingers crossed).
IDK I feel like the NAH is starting to show its age and everything else is starting to leave it behind. Stupid little touches that ford put into the FFH really but a nice spin on things. ambient lighting, which I know is completely stupid, made the car feel classy. a real power outlet (three prong plug 120v) are everywhere in the cabin. Power seats for both the driver and passenger, dual climate control standard, energy flow monitor is standard, everytime you shut off the car it gives you, life time FE and trip FE/distance & time, a reactive gauge ( changes color and grows/looses leaves) depending on your driving habits. Everything in the cluster except the speedometer is customizable. Everything that made the prius standout in my mind when I purchased it back in 04 seem to be present in the FFH (a Unique and informative instrument panel that doesnt over do it.... that's right honda I'm talking about you).

IMHO, OP is way too harsh on my HyCam. Yeah, it drives like a boat, but it's a very comfortable boat! If all you need to do is go down the highway for hours at time without it wearing you down, the HyCam is your car. It has plenty of power, can go in a straight line with 1-finger on the wheel, has a decent stereo, and can easily get 40 MPG on the highway.

No way would I put the civic ahead of the Hycam if I'm comparison shopping sedans for their usual purpose. If I need to save bucks, and want kicks, I'd sooner get a fit or a mini (but I'd test the insight first!).

Given that the NAH is only available in limited quantities in like 3 states, I'm not sure it counts, but I would definitely give it a test drive if it were around.

I'd also test the ford if I were in the market for another sedan, which I'm not. My non-driving first impressions from the auto show were that I didn't like the interior and didn't like the exterior styling. Of course I used to drive a 2004 Prius, so I obviously have no taste whatsoever! If it really does get better mileage, which seems to need more real world confirmation, I would probably give Ford the benefit of the doubt on reliability.

I personally want/need a high MPG runabout hatchback commuter/city car. Given all the comfort improvements, the size, the improved handling, the whizbang SR or AT packages, and the hopefully still reasonable pricing, 2010 Prius seems like THE car for that purpose. Those people needing to save $ can go buy a used or 2009 Prius, but I want the latest, greatest toy!

The NAH is (unfortunately) only available in 9 states per 2009 Nissan Altima Sedan and Hybrid Specs - Nissan USA (click on the 1 under HYBRID): California, New York, Massachusetts, Connecticut, Vermont, Oregon, Rhode Island, Maine and New Jersey.

I think Oregon got recently added as NAH availability used to be California + 7 CARB states.

We've only had our '09 Prius for a couple of weeks, and we really love it. For us, our top criteria were: FE and hatchback. I wanted the fuel efficiciency, my wife had to have a hatchback.

We almost went with a non-hybrid (the Fit), after test driving several cars. The Fit was certainly much cheaper in price. But we both noticed the harsh ride, and engine & road noise. Although it was really fun to drive hard, we both realized that if we went on any kind of a long trip, that we would quickly grow weary of the noise and ride.

Once I decided to not let the price differential be a deciding factor between the Fit and Prius, then there was no contest. The Prius is very comfortable on the road, and very quiet. But it still handles well, has luxury features only found on much more expensive cars, has better fit and finish than the Fit, and has the HSD.

If I had to do it again now that the FFH is out? I'd still go with the Prius because of our need for a hatchback. But if I were looking for a sedan, then the FFH would be a serious contender.

Actually I thought my coworkers HyCam rode very poorly when I rode in it for a few hours a couple weeks ago. I expected it to ride more like my Lexus ES but I found it pretty firm...

The theory of relativity strikes again! In Edmond's InsideLine comparison of the Gen II Prius and the HyCam, they described the HyCam ride as follows:

"The Camry Hybrid's ride is definitely the quieter and softer of the two, although perhaps a little too soft and buoyant in the estimation of some of us because of insufficient damping."

I agree with them, but for highway driving, the ride is fine. Around town, it can be a little bouncy, and is not a float above the clouds but still have your feet on the ground kind of car. Way better than Gen II Prius, but definitely not an old school Cadillac or new school Lexus (and as OP pointed out, definitely not a Beamer either!).

I don't think I was being to harsh on the Hycam (sorry if it came off that way), I just dont see anything distinguishing about it. The ride was ok, yes it was softer, but i prefer a little firmer ride and tighter handling (which both the NAH and FFH give), the TCH wasn't particularly peppy (again the NAH and FFH beat it) All three of those hybrids are using the same technology ( I think ford may be using the prius gen II synergy drive while the others are still using gen I) and are around the same price. After driving the TCH i feel like it's in the middle of the pack, its still good, but other hybrids suit my needs better and are put together in a nicer package.

HCH and the TCH were pretty much tied in my mind, but the Civic beat out the camry because of handling and better laid out cabin (honda the instrument panel needs to be turned down). Looking back, the road noise of the civic is more of a deal breaker, but it could be the stock tires.

I have to agree with ggood. Camry hybrid has 3.0 liter V6-like power with more noise insulation than the Civic hybrid. Did you know HCH is slower than the Insight? If you are going to brush away the road noise due to tires, why not brush away the handling / floating feel due to the suspension? TCH is 4 seconds faster than HCH in 0-60.

HCH gas engine is louder than Prius because it has to work harder due to minimal MG assist. I have not driven the Insight yet but because it is geared lower than the HCH, I would expect even louder.

Insight seems to define econohybrid and HCH is a level above it. TCH is a very well refined mid-size sedan. Putting the hybrid versions aside, would you pick the Civic over the Camry?

The TCH is "ordinary" like a Crown Vic is ordinary. The taxi
drivers who get 'em, love 'em. And it give them automatic
anti-idling policy compliance without having to think.
.
The Fusion sounds pretty sweet but as I said before, it's a sedan.
I'm holding out for that mythical minivan and still enjoying
the heck out of my '04 in the meantime.
.
_H*

Sorry, my experience and measurements contradict your statement. Can you explain where your information came from? Also in my multi-year experience, under full throttle acceleration the HCH-II achieves full electric assist as early as 2500 RPM and full torque earlier than that.

Unless you can be more specific as to the conditions under which the noise will be higher in the HCH-II than what it is on the Prius-II, then I suspect I cannot relate to it either. Please note, I am pretty sure that my ability to confirm any of what I say is not undermined by a flaw in any car since I own multiples of each.

Cheers;

MSantos

Boy, that would be excellent! A HSD Prius Minivan! I really like minivans, have had several. To me they are the most versatile vehicles. Need to transport 7 people in comfort? No problem. Need room for transporting large items? Only a pickup would have more room. Now if it could get 50+ mpg.....Wow!

My current V6 powererd, big & boxy Chevy Uplander gets an all around average of about 21 mpg. That includes plenty of back road driving in a hilly area, as well as highway driving. On the highway it gets over 26 mpg at 65 to 70 mph. And I don't drive it really trying to keep the FE up.

So I would think that a HSD based minivan with good aerodynamics could quite possibly get over 50 mpg (assuming it wasn't carrying a heavy load).

From my own driving experience as well as being in the rear passenger seat (rear). Acceleration from dead stop is more noisy in HCH with say 50% on the accelerator. The first thing that caught my attention is as soon as I release the brake, the ICE starts with a bit of vibration. The ICE sound continue to raise as I press the accelerator, as expected from a CVT. IMA use mechanical CVT therefore it relies on fast revving of the ICE to translate higher torque at the wheels. HSD relies on high torque MG2 to transmit higher torque at the wheels, giving the ICE freedom to rev at only necessary RPM.

I also got the impression that the engine working very hard during merging into the highway. It makes sense because HCH ICE red lines 26% (6,300 vs. 5,000) higher than the Prius and HCH ICE has smaller displacement.

In general HCH ICE has to work harder than Prius because:

1) HCH ICE hp to MG hp ratio is higher; therefore ICE has to do more work at longer period.
2) HCH HV battery is smaller; therefore MG assist is limited.
3) Generator power is limited therefore; less energy gets captured for later MG assistant during acceleration.