1. Offline

    adric22 Ev and Hybrid Enthusiast

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    Location:
    Fort Worth, TX
    Your Vehicle Year:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Obviously the 2001-2003 model (what I have) is not the best candidate. But I was wondering if you had the choice of a 2004-2009 or 2010 model, which is currently the best candidate for a PHEV conversion? Also my goal would be to drive in EV mode as close to 100% as possible. My round-trip commute is about 12 miles per day.

    I currently have a 2002 with Enginer kit but it is really not performing to my needs, mostly due to the fact that the 2002 requires an engine warmup before EV mode will kick in, in which case I'm half way to work by that point.

    So I have been thinking about possibly getting a newer Prius but I notice there doesn't seem to be much available for the 2010 model (yet), but the 2004-2009 model seems to have 2 other kits (Hymotion and Plug-in Solutions) available.

    Now. Just from my own thinking, the 2010 model has a larger MG2 which seems more suitable for driving on EV only. But I don't see any kits available except for Enginer and that won't force EV mode.
  2. Offline

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    Location:
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    Your Vehicle Year:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    Gen2 is the most matured for after-market PHV upgrades. For Gen3, Enginer kit is available. PICC recently successfully hacked into Gen3 to allow safe EV above 62 MPH (by keeping the ICE spinning powered by MG1).

    Once Gen3 PHV kits matures, it will be better. Gen3 gearing requires ICE to spin at lower RPM above the threshold (62 MPH).
  3. Offline

    adric22 Ev and Hybrid Enthusiast

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    Okay, but if you are below 62mph, does that mean the ICE will not be spinning at all? Being that I rarely exceed 45 mph on my daily commute, the highway speed is not that much of an issue for me. I just want to be able to get into my car, drive to work, drive home and never have the ICE run at all.
  4. Offline

    2k1Toaster HID Guru

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    Location:
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    Also keep in mind it will void your hybrid warranty. So I would suggest a GenII with 100k miles (or 150k in CARB states). But some people are picky with new vs. used cars.
  5. Offline

    adric22 Ev and Hybrid Enthusiast

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    I look at it this way. If something expensive breaks (such as the transaxle, etc) and there might be any question of relation to the plug-in kit, just remove all of the parts of the kit that they'd be able to see in the shop before taking the car in for repair. If there is no plug-in kit, it will be hard for them to come up with a reason not to repair under warranty.
  6. Offline

    linuxpenguin Active Member

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    Agreed. Right now Gen2 is most mature but Gen3 holds more promise given the better engineered drivetrain and other various improvements / efficiency boosts.

    Regarding warranty--that is still unclear really. Toyota has to prove that whatever modification you make caused the problem in question. There is a lot of discussion as to whether or not Toyota will honor any warranties on the existing battery (for battery supplement / addon conversions only of course). If you get a battery /replacement/ conversion, then the conversion company is generally liable for the battery warranty instead of Toyota.

    Andrew
  7. Offline

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    Correct. Below 62 MPH, ICE will be at 0 RPM. MG1 will spin slower in Gen3 as well, reducing some mechanical loss.
  8. Offline

    dan2l 2014 Prius v wagon

    Member Since:
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    Location:
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    Your Vehicle Year:
    2014 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Five
    I have both a 2005 and a 2010 each with 4kwhr and 3k converters.

    The 2010 will go a little faster before engaging the ICE but the 2005 will do better at not engaging the ICE when the car is not fully warm.

    I can get 99.9mpg in the Prius trip gauge as an average for 15 mile trips in town on either car. I do have to change my driving technique a little between the 2 cars. At 99.9mpg the ICE temp becomes very important because the ICE is off so much of the time.

    On the average, the 2010 clearly get better mpg even with no PHEV installed.

    Thanks,
    Dan
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    markf57 Junior Member

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    Location:
    Longmont, Colorado
    Your Vehicle Year:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    II
    Dan:

    You are in a great position with one of each car.

    I live in Colorado and with the tax incentives (85% cost of kit), I'm starting to look at a Prius for our family. I'm torn between a GenII and GenIII.

    It would be great if you were able to create a matrix that shows the pros and cons of each Prius generation (II and III) for different driving conditions, temperatures and trip lengths. As well as a little more detail on how you drive differently in each of the cars.

    It seems to me that that I might have a problem getting the ICE warm enough for a good part of the year here in Colorado. Maybe not?

    Thanks,

    Mark
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    sub3marathonman Active Member

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    If I was in that situation, I would definitely pick a GenII. If you can find a fairly low milage 2008 or 2009, it will be much less than a new GenIII. (If you can find one with a backup camera, that would also be a big plus.) Also, in my opinion Toyota "cheaped out" with the GenIII by requiring a higher option package just to get things like the Smart Key System on all doors, which was available on almost all the GenII, and the Solar Kit is a huge expense too for some GenIIIs, which adds to the price. If you absolutely had to have a new Prius, I would pick the Prius II package and live with the shortcomings though.

    Now, if somebody else was paying 85% of a PHEV conversion, I would definitely go with the PICC as linuxpenguin has done. You can read many of his observations on this forum. With 85% off the price, just the residual value added by the kit should be worth the 15% you would be paying.

    In my situation, I went with the Hymotion kit, and a 50% rebate from Florida. It too is a very good kit, but the engine still does come on occasionally. I am hopeful that pEEf will perfect his CAN bus kit, because then the Hymotion kit interaction with the Prius will be more controlled by the driver.
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    markf57 Junior Member

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    Location:
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    2010 Prius
    Model:
    II
    Thanks for the info.

    Sadly, the state is only rebating the Hymotion and the Enginer kits, not the PICC one.

    Thanks for the info about the camera. I didn't realize it was that important.

    Mark
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    2k1Toaster HID Guru

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    Location:
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    Do you have more info on the 85% rebate within CO?
  13. Offline

    markf57 Junior Member

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    Location:
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    2010 Prius
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    It appears that I can't post a link until I have 5 posts.
  14. Offline

    markf57 Junior Member

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    Location:
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    2010 Prius
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    What is so good about having a backup camera?
  15. Offline

    markf57 Junior Member

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    2010 Prius
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    Here is post 5!:)
  16. Offline

    markf57 Junior Member

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    2010 Prius
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  17. Offline

    sub3marathonman Active Member

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    We have one with a backup camera, and one without. The backup camera will help you see if a small child is behind the car, or a bicycle is laying behind the car, when you're backing out. Therefore many people without small children feel they don't need the camera, but the Prius that didn't have the backup camera is also the one that hit a small post sticking out of the ground that couldn't be seen, thus causing about the price of the backup camera in damage. Also, when backing out when parked next to a big SUV, you can see if anybody is walking toward the car, or if traffic is approaching. There has been a couple of times with the backup camera that I have seen somebody walking that I didn't see when looking. Maybe the camera makes me a bit more careful, double or triple-checking while backing.
  18. Offline

    sub3marathonman Active Member

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    Here in Florida, the Hymotion was the only one that qualified for the 50% rebate. I would have chosen it over the Enginer kit anyway though. At an 85% rebate, the Hymotion would cost less than a basic Enginer kit, which is a spectacular bargain. The Hymotion kit is far superior to a basic Enginer kit, at least in my situation looking for purely EV driving. If you've got a 50 mile commute everyday, the two kits start to even out, since an EV mile is an EV mile no matter the kit or the amps that was delivered.
  19. Offline

    markf57 Junior Member

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    Location:
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    Your Vehicle Year:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    II
    The state caps the Hymotion rebate at $6,000, so it's not 85% for that one.

    Mark

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