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What to look out for when buying a higher mileage used prius?

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Main Forum' started by AleksanderTheGreat, Mar 25, 2014.

  1. AleksanderTheGreat

    AleksanderTheGreat New Member

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    Howdy! Hopeful 2nd gen prius owner with a few questions

    So I've decided my next car will be a used prius, and due to my budget and that working on vehicles is something I enjoy, will be a higher mileage car.

    At the moment I am looking at a 2004 prius with ~181k miles, but irregardless, the cars in my price range seem to all be right at the high 100k to low 200k on the clock.

    I am not afraid of high mileage cars, nor am I afraid of working on cars. I've been wrenching on cars for almost a decade now, everything from all general maintenance to open source ECU replacements, to installing clutches, doing timing/water pump jobs, installing a turbo on a car that left the factory without one. Not afraid of tackling electronics either. I always have something work on in the garage that has an engine.

    What should I specifically look out for when looking at a prius? I test drove it a couple weeks back and it seemed fine, and drove well.

    Is there a checklist or used buyers guide? I can't seem to find one.

    Some specific questions I have,

    - Can I somehow tell if the battery is healthy, I have an ultra gauge obd tool, from what I understand it doesnt have any specific prius functionality like some of the other obd computers, but are there any parameters I can look at that would maybe give me a look into the battery health?

    - When the battery begins to fail and the car throws a code, does that make the car immobile or can I at least clear the code and limp it home? I mainly commute on my motorcycle, so the car could sit while I plan out the repair.

    - If I do get the car, I would do a blanket fluid change (oil/coolant/tranny fluid/brakes) new filter and plugs, should I do something else? I also use Rotella t6 5w-40 in literally every vehicle I use, including my motorcycle (this stuff is great, and rated for pretty much everything), am I correct to assume it's prius safe?

    - I did some looking up and it seems the little ICE has a timing chain instead of a belt, which is awesome, but would the car being at 180k miles begin to plan out a major service that included a new chain? I would do all the work myself, so really just the cost of parts would factor into things.

    - How would I be able to manually turn the ICE on so I could hear the engine with the hood open to listen for abnormal sounds? Blast the AC maybe?

    - How long is the clutch expected to last?

    - 200k maintenance? Whats a good idea to think about doing in general?


    The car has a smartkey, and when I test drove it last time the dash wasn't working. I was told it needed to have the remote reprogrammed, the car ran and I drove it around for a good 30 minutes around town and a short stint on the highway just without being able to gauge my speed or see anything on the dash, and the MFD didn't show mpg averages, but I had my obd computer plugged in and I averaged I believe 48 or 49 for that short trip. When I inquired about the car again yesterday, I was told it was programmed and the dash now working correctly. Should this throw up any alarms in your heads? Did someone maybe just disconnect and reconnect the battery and didn't follow a simple procedure to get everything functioning correctly.

    Any and all advice is appreciated, and hopefully I can join the club and contribute to the community.
     
  2. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    Howdy!

    Greetings and welcome!
    I wouldn't think that there is too much different about buying a G2 with 180K on the clock than there is about buying a Corolla with similar miles with the exception of battery and perhaps brakes. Don't let the regen brakes scare you. There are many "how-to" posts for dealing with them here and elsewhere.

    The G2 experts can answer specific questions (I have a G3) but the "dash wasn't working" raises my eyebrows a bit.
    On my car you can't 'manually' turn on the ICE, but you also can't KEEP it from starting when the engine is not warmed up, so looking for leaks, creaks, cracks, and squeaks is fairly straightforward.
    As far as the clutch, the transmission is a CVT, and I've never heard of one failing in service but there are many in this board who advocate fluid changes more often than the maintenance schedule calls for. This isn't emerging technology, and the one in the Prius seems fairly robust. I don't know if Nissan can make that same claim from what I'm hearing.

    My advice:
    Keep doing what you're doing.
    Flip the guy or gal with the G2 that you're interested in a $10 bill for gas and take it for a loooooong test flight. Since you're already sniffing at the car with an OBD2 I'd probably not recommend having another wrench look at the car. If it doesn't toss a code during a 50-mile test flight, then you're probably as OK as you can expect to be for a car of this vintage.
    The traction battery will deadline this car, but you can get a remanned unit for something like 1500 bucks and you'll certainly be able to install it yourself. Traction batteries are warrantied for over 100K and they seem to be lasting for at least 10 years in these cars from my very unscientific observations.....but your prospective car is.........10 years old.
    I'd research prices and add the cost of a new traction battery to your budget for an 04.

    Stay away from the Rotella for the Prius, or at least don't admit to using it on this car on this forum.
    I don't think that it will hurt this motor, but it will probably leave a few Prius Chatters with flattened finger tips from typing out messages telling you that you're going to wreck your ICE.
    FWIW I think that the T6 will work just fine. It's great oil, but for the same $$ you can get the designer blend that's recommended for the car.
    I use the thicker stuff (T 15x40) on my motorcycles as well.
    Good stuff!

    Good Luck with the G2!
    It will be a great tinker project. :)
     
  3. Britprius

    Britprius Senior Member

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    Hi welcome to PC.
    The Prius is a very reliable car, but there are a few areas that are different to other vehicles. One of the items on your list is the speedo part of the dash not working. This has definitely nothing to do with the smart key system , but is a problem with the display it's self.The problem usually comes and goes and is made worse in cold weather. There is an extended guarantee for later vehicles but this has expired for the 2004's. The display can be repaired following instructions here on PC or replaced with a used display.
    Brake work "hydraulics" requires the use of Toyota Techstream software and the the equipment, but a Mini VCI with Techstream can be bought on Ebay for around $25. This will allow you to have dealer level access to all the Prius trouble codes and service features including the checking of the HV battery. The car has no clutches , brake bands, or even gear changes, no reverse gear. All is accomplished by changing the speed and direction of two electric motors "buried in the transmission" that can also act as generators, know as MG1 and MG2. The Prius has no normal starter motor "started by MG1", no alternator and is not started by the 12 volt battery. It only has one belt driving the engine coolant pump. The brake pads have been known to last 250,000 miles since most of the braking is done by producing electricity to charge the HV battery "regen braking".
    The engine is an altered version of the standard Toyota 1500 cc engine, converted to an Atkinson cycle engine. High millage engine sometimes use some oil but low millage engines can be bought cheaply from breakers as they otherwise are very reliable. Some going to over 500,000 miles.
    I suggest you have a look at the link bellow to get an idea of how the transmission works. Play with the sliders and you will see how things affect both road and engine speed, with under certain conditions the engine not needing to run at all including reverse. Sometimes the engine may be spinning but not actually running and using no fuel, being turned by one of the electric motors "MG1".
    The AC is electrically driven so the engine does not have to be running for this to work. The car just has to be in "ready" mode. This is because the engine may shut down while you are driving at lower speeds round town but you may still need AC.
    I hope this has answered some of your questions. Please put your location in your avatar as this can affect the information on your vehicle as the specifications vary dependent on country. This will also enable us to tell you of local suppliers for parts and repairs.

    Toyota Prius - Power Split Device

    John (Britprius)
     
  4. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    1. Do a search for "inspection mode" to determine how to keep the gasoline engine running continuously. Do not drive the car while it is in that mode.
    2. The correct engine oil viscosity is 5W-30. 5W-40 is too heavy and will impair fuel economy.
    3. The amount of engine noise will help you to decide whether the timing chain needs to be replaced.
    4. If the dash is not working then the combination meter may have an intermittent fault. Do not minimize the difficulty of resolving electrical issues. Stay away from a Prius that does not have all electrical systems working upon purchase - who knows if it suffered flooding or some other mishap.
    5. Subscribe to techinfo.toyota.com to obtain factory repair manual info and purchase Mini VCI as previously suggested.
    6. 200K mile maintenance: Make sure the 100K and 120K services were performed, if unsure about those, perform now. Perform the 60K service at minimum. Check all rubber hoses, serpentine belt, PCV valve and replace if needed. Replace the transaxle ATF.
     
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  5. AleksanderTheGreat

    AleksanderTheGreat New Member

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    I'm in the San Diego area.

    So just ran the carfax on this car: 1 owner, California car, and although the title is clear it was in an accident, here is some info

    Total Loss
    No total loss reported to CARFAX.
    Structural Damage
    Structural damage reported on 02/21/2008.
    Airbag Deployment
    No airbag deployment reported to CARFAX.
    Odometer Check
    No indication of an odometer rollback
    Accident / Damage
    Damage reported on 02/21/2008.
    Manufacturer Recall
    At least 1 manufacturer recall requires service. Locate an authorized Toyota dealer near you to schedule an appointment.

    so at

    4/15/05 mileage reported as 15,405 mi

    then

    Accident / Damage
    Damage reported on 02/21/2008.
    "Damage reported after
    accident or other incident
    Damage to rear
    Structural damage reported"

    then 9/26/13 177,660 mi.

    after that it was auctioned off at

    2/10/14
    182,163 mi.

    so that's where we stand. The asking price of the car is 5700. I'm looking to keep the new car purchase ~6500. All the cars in the area in this price range are typically salvage with equally as many miles.

    I skimmed through the tsb thread on the mfd, and I couldn't find specific info on what part of the circuit board was worked on. I've reflowed solder on electronics before, and soldering isnt something I'm afraid to tackle.
     
  6. Britprius

    Britprius Senior Member

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    The MFD is the center display on the dash not the speedo display so do not get these confused when looking up information. This is called the combination meter.

    John (Britprius)
     
  7. AleksanderTheGreat

    AleksanderTheGreat New Member

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    Whoops, my apologies, I meant the combination meter (the one with the speedo/mileage info, correct?)
     
  8. JC91006

    JC91006 Senior Member

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    Here's one I noticed that isn't too bad of a deal, and isn't too far from you. The bonus on this one is the HV battery has already been replaced by Toyota. Asking price is $6400.

    2005 Toyota Prius (Pruis) Hybrid 43 MPG
     
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  9. AleksanderTheGreat

    AleksanderTheGreat New Member

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    I will definitely have to look into that. Thanks!

    It would be perfect if it was white!

    When the dealer addresses the battery, do they replace the whole battery or do they repair the pack? does that battery now have any kind of warranty after being replaced by the dealer?
     
  10. Britprius

    Britprius Senior Member

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    The whole pack is replaced with a new one, but only 1 year guarantee.

    John(Britprius)
     
  11. usnavystgc

    usnavystgc Die Hard DIYer and Ebike enthusiast.

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    Wow, that car is already gone. Good deals do go fast huh?
     
  12. JC91006

    JC91006 Senior Member

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    There is another one in Los Angeles, has a salvage title from a tree hitting it. There is full dealer maintenance records from day one and the inverter just failed. Asking $3900. 2004 Has 140k. You can get an inverter for $250 on Ebay and installation is a 1 hr job.
     
  13. usnavystgc

    usnavystgc Die Hard DIYer and Ebike enthusiast.

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    The tree hit the car???? lol
     
  14. JC91006

    JC91006 Senior Member

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  15. AleksanderTheGreat

    AleksanderTheGreat New Member

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    I absolutely hate that color :( , but I appreciate the suggestions! It's not really about getting one for dirt cheap, it's more about getting something decent for a fair price, and I don't want anything with too much body damage.

    The only color I will buy is White, Gray, Silver, in that order.

    Is there anything I can look out for in the MFD display to make sure the car is functioning correctly? The battery bars in the meter, how frequently should they change color and drop/raise bars while driving?
     
  16. AleksanderTheGreat

    AleksanderTheGreat New Member

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    Also another question,

    I won't be driving the car too much, probably under 7k miles/year if that. I usually keep my vehicles on a battery tender to charge overnight at least a handful of times per month, is this something that's okay to do on a prius?
     
  17. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    The MFD display can display warning messages and icons about the car's condition.

    The traction battery state of charge gauge can move up and down from eight green bars to one red bar depending upon mountainous terrain that you are climbing and descending. On flat terrain you would normally expect the gauge to show 3-6 blue bars unless the air conditioner compressor is running a lot in summer weather while the car is crawling along, in which case you will see 1-2 red bars.


    Yes, you absolutely should fully-chaege the 12V battery at least 2x per month to maximize its service life.
     
  18. AleksanderTheGreat

    AleksanderTheGreat New Member

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    If i go to a Toyota service center with the VIN and let them know I'm looking at a prius, can (or will, preferably without cost) they give me information such as what recalls were done and the like? Is there a dealer kept service history from a VIN number that any dealer would have access to?

    Not really sure how dealer servicing is handled. Only time I ever went to a dealer was for a recall, and that was almost a decade ago.
     
  19. usnavystgc

    usnavystgc Die Hard DIYer and Ebike enthusiast.

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    You can go to this website (www.toyota.com/owners), create an account and add the car to your account using the VIN and find out anything any Toyota dealer ever did to the car.
     
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  20. AleksanderTheGreat

    AleksanderTheGreat New Member

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    Thanks for the website tip! I signed up and looked up the history

    is the aux battery the 12v battery or the hv battery? This was at 177k miles

    HYBRID SYS DIAGNOSIS ~|~CUSTOMER STATES HYBRID WARNING LIGHT IS ON. CHECK AND ADVISE. ~|~FOUND CODES P3000 C0200 C0215 C1313 C2318 HISTORY CODE P0A82 UPON INSP FOUND HYBRID BATTERY BLOWER MOTOR HAS BUILD UP CAUSING MALFUNCTION. FOUND AUX BATTERY BAD CAUSE OF C2318. REC R&R BLOWER MOTOR FO HV BATTERY AND AUX BATTERY. ~|~AND AUX. BATEERY FAILED LOAD TEST. CUSTOMER DECLINED REPAIRS